Friday, March 21, 2008

Kurtz FTW: The BEST ending EVAR

Scott K. went to town with today's strip (Yet Another Letdown) and let loose. Twice the panels, twice the excitement, dare I say four times the emotion -- it was awesome.

Some might say it's unprofessional and maybe it is, but this ain't the newspaper, this is the web. I highly doubt this would ever make it into a PVP book, in fact, it's an opportunity to sell more books. I'd wager a good 10-15% more folks would buy the book with the "real paintball ending!" in it than would otherwise.

That's good stuff. Good humor; good business. Good to get that off his chest, perhaps.

(And BTW, before anyone starts taking bows: There are plenty of other sources of criticism in PVP's very own forum -- no need to assume this is thanks to us.)

55 comments:

Sage said...

Ha and thats the benefit of doing your strips on a daily benefits. Scott very nice and thats the way you say "f you im doing it my way" We can all say our piece on whether we like it or not, and if Scott gets tired of it this is the way to do it. not to put something into his strip to "test" TFSM.

My question is was someone really questioning how a paintball field would allow someone onto the field at night. Sheesh, if people thought our commments were picky thats just ridiculous. I would have given a 10/10 instead of a 9.9 if the last panel itself was colored.

Some people might say that this is another cut short storyline,and it was, but at least it was well written, funny, and made a statement (even though nipplatory system still makes me chuckle)

Gamma said...

Kurtz knows how to respond to us. And he shows he's still got the mojo.

Sage said...

Reading the forums now, its funny how many people are just too much on the side of PVP as well. I agree there are just idiots out there who critisize just to critisize but to love it unconditionally is just as stupid. the two posters I see Rollng Samus and Scarlet Varlet are celebrating like its some victory over those who want to challenge PVP. Like i said before this was a great response to over complaining but to say the he "won" in some sort of battle is ridiculous.
Btw Ding continues to be good

Anonymous said...

At this point I'm thinking that he just couldn't figure out how to end the story, so he just used a cop-out ending.

Anonymous said...

i'm actually really excited about the experiments kurtz has been doing with panel layout in the past few strips. i've been reading PVP for years, and i honestly can't remember there ever being a double "page" spread like this, apart from when he used to do the color sunday comics. this, in addition to the "new style" he's been experimenting with (brent's dad, the paintball guides), is seriously super-exciting. keep it up, kurtz!

Mike said...

Geez, Kurtz, grow a thicker skin, for Pete's sake.

And ascribing a variation on the Simpsons' "Comic Book Guy" to one of your critics in a metafictional break? Not exactly the newest trick in the book.

Here's an idea. You learn there's a blog that criticizes each of your strips. Mature decision choices:

(1) Read it, think "man, they're just completely off", close window (or unsubscribe from RSS, etc.).

(2) Read it, think "it has a lot of crap but a few good points", bookmark for occasional sift-through/scan to see if you agree with criticism and can seize same as opportunity to improve/grow.

(3) Read it, think "it makes a lot of good points", consult for thorough analysis of criticism.

Notice that amongst the "reacting maturely" choices, there is not:

(4) Flame out in blog's comments, close strip storyline by drawing "fat neeeeeeeeerd" stereotype and ascribe blogger comments to same.

You know, you have a pretty sweet job: one of the most popular webcomics on the 'Net plus a few very nice agreements with commercial partners (i.e. comics).

There are a few hundred other webcomic artists out there that would love to be in your shoes. (I ain't one of 'em. Can't draw worth a darn.)

Realize that that if your life branch had gone differently in about five different places, you'd be in a body bag coming home from Iraq, or STILL waiting for government help to rebuild your New Orleans home, or, hell, just out on the street.

You're damn lucky. Stop acting like a fucking child and start counting your blessings..

Anonymous said...

I'm more so curious how he managed to have the balls to draw a fat nerd when he himself is a walking lard factory.

Anonymous said...

The expert's silhouette is extremely similar to Skull's. I wonder if early drafts of the comic had him being mistaken for Skull, thus leading to the shooting.

Jai said...

Wow. This was a really unexpected close to the whole paintball story (Assuming it IS the end. If not, then it's just a really unexpected part of the story). I really liked it.

Now, I can assume one of two things. Either Mr. Kurtz (Which I do not call him in an attempt to make him feel old) is poking fun at himself and at the critics, or he is only targeting the critical crowd and this is thusly a "meanspirited" piece.

I lean strongly towards the former assumption. I feel that I have good reason to. Marcy's reaction to the "Comic Strip Critic Guy" calling her out ("Oh! Whoops!"), for instance, strongly infers that Mr. Kurtz intent is not to try and blast "naysayers" out of the water. Also, the CSCG has a bitchin' Boba Fett shirt (And a ponytail that makes him look as cool as Brent!). And no one here has "threatened" to burn whatever PVP-related printed materials or apparel they happen to own (Much less hinted at being "done with" PVP, so we really can't take "the" credit for this strip). Predictably, as the man over-steps the boundary between "valid criticism" and "fool", the PVP crew hose him down with a spray of lead... -based paint. This is the type of shenanigan that I can get behind and enjoy! The CSCG has a great manic look in his eyes, and I dig the nose. If you're unlucky, I'll go chasing after this rabbit about "noses", now.

You're unlucky.

I really hate "button" noses. Where did the "younger children should have ovals for noses but not anyone else" school of thought come from? I see that crap in For Better or Worse, and I see it here. I don't get it. It looks strange. It looks bad. Strange is bad. Yes, in my village we burn witches (Definition: "People who look different than us"). Enough about noses, though.

Aha, but, of course, now it's time to give this strip a strutinizing look and point out where it could be better. There would be too much irony (Or, well, coincidence) involved if I couldn't find anything to nitpick in the strip about nitpickers.

- The silhouette in panel 5. Why is that a silhouette? Don't you dare tell me the technical reason why, I KNOW the technical reason why (This strip is twice the size of a normal strip, and the silhouette is an easy shortcut. I do not begrudge the use of shortcuts, I just want them to still look good). That doesn't stop this silhouette from not making sense or from looking good without A) a background, or B) shrunk down and with some other silhouetted characters.

- I don't see the "neck beard" the CSCG alludes to.

- This isn't really a complaint, but it's weird that the lampooned critic is fat. However, I have to admit that "manic and disheveled" looks a hell of a lot better on a fat character than on a skinny one. Mr. Kurtz has already said that fat jokes really don't get to him, and turning "his detractors" into a single fat slobbery entity either makes that A) a lie, or B) so true that he doesn't even realize making any kind of fat joke at all (Even a harmless one like this) could reflect badly upon him. Preview Edit: What a surprise, an anonymous benefactor has already noticed this and made a "fat joke" comment. They're either not jokes at all or simply really awful jokes, but I don't know what else to call 'em.

- I still want to know if there was ever any actual ending in the plans for this story line. I don't care to see it play out in the strip now, no; but I was curious as to what actually gets planned out in advance for PVP. I hear all the time that it just gets made one strip at a time, one day at a time, as soon as an idea for that day's strip is thought up. But I lack empirical evidence, aside from how it just seems to be true. This is unfair of me, though, because the matter has nothing to do any faults today's strip had in it.

Anonymous said...

"Now, I can assume one of two things. Either Mr. Kurtz (Which I do not call him in an attempt to make him feel old) is poking fun at himself and at the critics, or he is only targeting the critical crowd and this is thusly a 'meanspirited' piece."

It's certainly not mean spirited, though I can see how someone could read it as such.

In my previous comment, I mentioned a possible explanation for the silhouette, and thus the expert's obesity.

Anonymous said...

Just another one of Kurtz's hissy fits. It is these things above all else that make me snap out of my mediocrity-induced daze and wonder why I keep going back to PVP every day.

But I still do it and will probably continue to do so.

evan said...

Personally, I read this strip as a combination of mean-spirited and begrudging recognition. i don't think that Scott had planned on ending the arc in this manner a few days ago, let alone when he began it. The PvP gang listening the the flaming ranter's criticism about the strips and pelting him with paint is a cathartic screw you to the criticizers and detractors.

However, Marcy had no answer for why she knew Skull was tripping on shrooms, and I think Scott had overlooked that when he initially wrote it and was sort of hanging a lampshade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lampshade_hanging) on it, while saying to the criticizers "Yeah... i sort of blew that one..."

I think he sort of ran out of steam on this arc, and it was getting a lot of criticism in the forums. It built up some great momentum a little while ago, but that momentum sort of died. Rather than go through building momentum back up for the arc and bringing it to a close, we just get an abrupt breaking of the fourth wall and we can get back to the PvP offices and maybe resume some of the bigger storylines that were put on hold when this one started (the divorce, and the marriage... are Brent's parents still around? Why didn't they show up at the hospital?)

In that respect, rather than drag the storyline out longer, i think Scott made a good decision to break the fourth wall and drop the storyline. I think he reached a point again where he said "Well, i don't see any more opportunities in this story for good jokes, so it's time to abandon it," and so he just did. I'm actually all for that decision in this instance, although it brings me back to my greater point about the writing of PvP in general as relates to longer form arcs: if you're going to do a longer form arc map the whole thing out before you start it so that you know where it's going and don't get stuck down the line.

Scott clearly wants to tell some bigger stories with his strip now. He feels that he's matured and he's like the content of the strip to mature as well. And I'm all for that. I'm all for the idea of the divorce arc and the marriage arc, and any arc that adds loads of character development and story to this strip which is traditionally a gag-a-day. But if that's the goal, then there needs to be more care put into the outlining of the story arcs. To do longer form stories that matter like that, they can't just be dropped in the middle because Scott got stuck for jokes.

evan said...

@sage

I think it's a little funny that you post to say that you think it's funny how people are too much on the side of Scott. I've been meaning to write a post saying basically the same thing to you.

Now, don't get mad please. I don't think that you are a mindless drone who worships anything PvP has to offer. you often have interesting and insightful things to say, and also often offer criticism.

I just think you have a tendency to be more on the defensive than necessary. There are a lot of times you'll respond to and defend things that just isn't necessary. Flamers don't need to be responded to.

It's fine. If you enjoy responding to that, feel free. There's no reason for you to, or for me to expect you to, change the way that you post or deal with other posters. You're never offensive or anything, I just think you give too much credence to some people a lot of the time in this space. And I just found your post a little ironic in that regard.

I hope we're still friends :)

Jai said...

"The expert's silhouette is extremely similar to Skull's. I wonder if early drafts of the comic had him being mistaken for Skull, thus leading to the shooting."

I find it very hard to believe that the nature of today's strip had been planned out in advance... but it's possible. Wait, wait, you're saying that the guy who became the Comic Strip Critic Guy today was intended to be someone else originally? Okay, now I getcha. That's an interesting thought for sure. If so, I almost wish it hadn't been abandoned... but the new use for that character (If you're right) is so much more interesting that I can't begrudge any former life he may have had. That's a very interesting theory, really, because it could mean that 3/4s of this strip (At LEAST) could have been drawn days ago for an entirely unrelated purpose. New idea, new arrangement of panels, voila! That would be pretty cool, in fact.

"It's certainly not mean spirited, though I can see how someone could read it as such."

I agree. It is, unfortunately, very open to interpretation. Quite a lot of the comments are from people who interpret it the other way (Like in the comments for the previous strip that are about today's strip), and what is actually bothering me about this is that Mr. Kurtz often seems to take no precautions against this type of situation, and will leave his motives questionable like this without a single thought as to how he may be portraying himself. Maybe this isolated incident is a small things, but as they say (Sort of), "If few people think you're someone you know you're not, ignore them. But if a LOT of people think this, then you should look in the mirror." Which is to say, make the effort to see things from their point of view. Realize what they're seeing. When you try to win people over as fans by connecting closely to the community (And clearly he does), you can't simply ignore it when you give off bad vibes to lots of people, no matter how unintentionally.

faz said...

Lordy what a copout.

If his skin is this thin it's no wonder he disabled commenting.

I didn't think the arc was that bad and would have preferred a regular ol' ending without acknowledging "critics".

faz said...

Also, lol neckbeard lol LOLOMGLOLZ!!!

Caren W. said...

Sorry sage :( I do agree with evan. Sometimes you are really defensive and critique the criticism more than the strip itself.

Though you are right about the two names you've mentioned. I really can't stand their posts in the forum.

bhahahwhwhw fucking awesome!!!111232323

I'm glad we don't get any of that here.

As for the strip itself, I enjoyed it :) I can gurantee you that Scott had this strip planned and written before he gave Marcy those lines yesterday. It wasn't an error at all, it was all planned for this strip.

Caren W. said...

oops I spoke too soon.

Anonymous said...

Though it's more mature than his usual dummy spitting, it's just another example of the difficulty Scott has in coping with criticism - even when it's valid as in the case of Marcy's gaff.

If he can't deal with the bad along with the good, he should probably stop seeking validation through fan's comments. You're never going to please everyone, it's just a fact of life.

DocN said...

Reggie

Sage said...
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Sage said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sage said...

My problem with the apologists in the PVP forum is that they are acting like "YES WE WON!" over the people that have criticisms of the comics. Honestly have the last two arcs really been worthy of Faulkner and Poe and we're just being overly-critical. I believe the majority of people on this site (those of whom that actually put their names :) ) have many viable opinions and while continiue to in the future. We enjoy PVP for the most part and we look at it with more of a critical eye (yes some of you more than me :) ) why would those people want to say "screw you" to those of us that don't just go with whatever Scott does as brilliant? I believe this comics was funny and very well written and addressed something Scott deemed imprortant/frustrating in more of a mature way. But you know what you "win" when you keep taking shots at your audience, a smaller audience

Sage said...

At Even and Caren W.

I agree that I am more on the positive side with PVP than most people as I think sometimes the critiques on this site get too picky. Thats not to say the people on here are overly critical. Many people, especially Evan, Jai, etc. are very well written and based in fact and not flamerland. On a 1-10 cale 1 being hypercritical to the point of being ridiculous and 10 is I LOVE KURTZ, I think im around a 6-7 i do like the strip and defend it more than most but remembre whens Scott came on here talking about his "experiment"?:

"So . . . you took the third suggestion that he made, which he later took back as the WEAKEST of his suggestions and did it in a wholley different situation (a situation of naivity vs. admittance of something funny and absurd) What exactly was "shown" to us with that statement. In both cases the person's face didn't really change (blank stare at Skull vs. blank stare at "camera") so what?

Was it to show him that he can't write a comic strip? I think we can agree thats true of ALL of us or else we'd be doing. I know it gets somewhat negative and picky at points, but what do you expect you linked his site here because it was "constructive criticism" IF thats not what it is anymore come out and say it, dont put it into the strip and go "ha got ya" because thats just plain stupid.

Are all artists that sensitive when it come to criticism? We're not even flaming PVP, I have and most have said that we do or have in the past enjoyed the strip."

I have criticized and will continue to Scott for being to sensitive to the criticisms that HE LINKED ME TO. Also, I have critisized a lot of the same story elements that has been by many others. I even posted the Whiteboard comic where the painball arc was criticized the best I don't get where I am the one too much on his side. Im not mad, i just don't get where that feeling came from. That one anonymus poster that keeps say "scott's fat" is just an idiot, who isnt even funny, but I will not say anything about again if where I am coming off as too defensive.

BTW where on whiteboard was that reggie comic, i couldn't find it on the site, but its hilarious.

aimee said...

As it's not part of his comic I think he just did it for his own amusement (and ours I should say). I wonder if he's been disappointed by the story.

The strip was good, like sage said it's funny seeing some on the PvP forum going nuts about it. Do they expect us to close this blog down now or something?

FSM was right it's probably all the emails Scott has gotten that made him do this and not this blog. Scott mentioned on his Webcomics Weekly podcast that he had someone say he wasnt going to buy PvP stuff anymore because of how things are now.

Still I wouldnt be surprised if FSM printed this one out and pinned it on the fridge or somewhere. :D

Julia said...

I was unimpressed by this immature and peevish response. If he doesn't like legitimate criticism, DO A BETTER JOB! Every complaint this strip made fun of was stuff that he could have fixed by paying more attention and trying harder. He didn't. He failed.

Anonymous said...

Criticism? I dare to say that you guys are far from being (good) critics.

You kind of rate and discect each and every panel he draws. Not a story arc, not even the strip, you go down to the panel.

I call that nitpicking and I understand when people get frustrated over that.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, please ignore my last comment above. I've since read some of the previous postsa nd comments and I no longer feel what I said was accurate.

Please continue with what you were doing.

No-NeckBeard FatScott said...

Part of the problem with the PVP forum folks is that seemingly 75% of them have their own shitty webcomics online, often heavily linked in their signature and mentioned in every third post. They want Scott to work with them professionally, whether it means plugging them or letting them do a guest strip. Anytime you have the creator of a work involved in its forum you'll get nothing but sycophants hoping to be noticed for defending the strip. You'll get a lot more honest opinions in a place like this where you both feel like you can critique without penalty from the creator.

Don't even get me started on some of the forum regulars. Particularly the Canadian girl who manages to clumsily shoehorn her lesbianism into every other post she makes, simultaneously talking about having done modeling while using sexy avatars to get the idiots there to drool. She also attacks everyone at the drop of the hat, usually waiting for someone to make an error in semantics. Then the madly fapping 15 year olds back her up out of a fear/love relationship.

Lucas Murtinho said...

It made me think of this:

http://www.websnark.com/archives/2004/12/wiley_blinks.html

What Eric Burns said of that Wiley strip about Kurtz applies perfectly to this Kurtz strip about, well, us: taken in a vaccuum, it's pretty funny, but the context leaves a bad taste in the reader's mouth.

PVP has been lagging for some time: Kurtz comes up with good ideas and then ruins it by rushing through the storyline or, worse, has bad ideas to begin with. At least that's my opinion, and apparently lots of readers feel the same way. So the criticism is there for a reason. And with this strip, Kurtz blinked.

And part of the reason why PVP makes us occasionally sad may be the fact that Kurtz pays so close attention to reader's reactions. If he's got faith in what he's doing, he should stick to it and screw those who don't like it. Then again, maybe he's paying attention to us because he's insecure and not the other way around. Anyway, I hope he's exorcised whatever was bugging him, and that we'll be back to the good old times of PVP from here on.

Anonymous said...

Aye, Lucas, the comment about Kurtz having faith in himself pretty much sums up a major flaw in his reactions to criticism. He is insecure enough to feel ticked off when people don't like what he's doing, but secure enough to wilfully spite people that criticise his work. The result is an occasional petty spat which should remain completely separate from his work.

aimee said...

Isn't this the same guy who created a Han Shot First tee shirt? How dare he criticise George Lucas, he has absolutely no right at all!

*rolls eyes*

Anonymous said...

I guess I should have put my nick in my post, but then I didn't expect such immature actions taking place here, like some other person writing like he was the other post's author.

Ah well, every "forum" goes down the drain sooner or later, I guess this one here is already on its way.

So, I still say nitpicking and now lets see how I will change my opinion again in 2 hours somehow.

bas

Jim Cowling said...

A mature artist does not respond to critics. He may pay attention, but he doesn't respond. You can look at quite a few artists and point at when they "lost it" by railing against their critics: Anne Rice is a good recent example.

In any case, this wasn't particularly funny; rather, it was petulant and unprofessional. And immature.

And ironic, too -- given that the uberfan in the strip more closely resembles Kurtz in form and personality than any gestalt of his critics.

Film Guru said...

I love it how so many of you guys just leap to hilarious conclusions based on absolutely nothing. Scott throwing another one of his hissy fits? A means to venting? Scott is being unprofessional by letting emotions get in the way?!

I'm sorry, but can't people just see this particular installment for what it is? Awesome. For heaven's sakes stop reading so much into it and just admit that he nailed you fair a square by pointing out the ultimately petty and hilariously idiotic nature of taking a simple strip so seriously.

Mind you, I'm not saying you can't have gripes, but there's a point where it starts being ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

I'm sure you get just as analytical and nit-picky, "film_guru."

Sage said...

First of all no-neckbeard is a funny name!

This was my original grip with Scott, he came on about a month I think when "evil" Scott made his appearance. He came on and said things like:
"Does anyone really care if Marcy shot Francis or vice-versa? It's funnier to me that Brent is humiliated or that we come up with some funny thing like he has really fragile nipples. I mean, the purpose is to make people laugh.

You guys are hilarious. Anyone in here saying that I should not listen to fans and change things due to what they say....you're all hypocrites. That's the whole point of this site. People bitching about how I should change."

Its amazing how he changes from one paragraph from another. The first paragraph was great, he explained to us his thought process and why he chose what he chose. Then in the next he calls us all hypocrits and that we bitch at him to change. Then in a later post he does something that suggested off hand by TFSM and went "see i did it haha tested ya"
Does he have to share every little detail on how he thinks of things, no, but thats the way to defend yourself if you think you need to. However, if you come at people calling them names and accusing then of just bitching, when most aren't then we'll listen to him as much as we listen to "Scott is fat" anonymus poster. If we're just being annoying then show us up with a hilarious strip, if we're misinformed, then do what he did when TFSM mistakently criticized where one of his characters was looking, just come one and tell us.
The funny thing is had he not blown up on this blog, more people wouldn't have seen his last strip as "going off the handle." I thought it was hilarious, but I can see other people's point, because Scott has a history of it, even on this site.

evan said...

That's very likely true... If i didn't know that Scott had such a history of not being able to handle criticism well, and if he hadn't so recently been both here and in his own forum flaming people for disliking the directions he was taking, then it's very likely that I wouldn't have read this strip as partly mean-spirited. I also probably would have thought it was funnier, too.

Sage said...

Film guru, i agree that the site sometimes gets nit-picky, however its never to an extreme amount. Very rarely does someone say Scott's strip is shit (mostly its the one anonymus poster). But i don;t think Scott "nailed" anyone, we generally like PVP and we generally just talk among ourselves, and we really haven't stopped talking since he's done it.

Anonymus now known as Bas, its funny how your opinion changed so fast :) Man if you disagree with someone have the balls to act like its your own opinion, not to pretend you are the. Those are the ones that are the "neck-beards"

In my opinion (and the worth of it varies depending on who you talk to :) ) I think the strip can be compared to South Park's "cartoon wars" well. They did rail against family guy, and they did make good points. However, instead of just looking at the negatives of another (and coming of as just being angry at Family Guy whom they didn't think was good) they had a farmer say "I am sick of cartoons that are up its own ass with messages" They admited they had flaws as much as the next guy. Thats what I believe Scott was saying here. He admitted the continuity thing was a mistake, but said some of his critiques (or all for what we know) were getting a little too negative. He made a point but didn't say it in a "your all stupid for critcizing me" manner, so i can actually listen to that message

neddy said...

If he claimed to be making a relatively simplistic, non-continuous strips where he wasn't thinking of maturing his writing, yes, the criticisms would be silly.

However, Mr. Kurtz has declared that he wishes the script to evolve and mature, and grow. Honestly, the critics on this site are much more lenient than literary critics. In addition, art, writing, and continuity are all things that are essential to the comic and posed as "improving."

Calling out the emperor isn't petty if the emperor calls attention to his wonderful new (invisible) clothes.

Caren W. said...

I have to disagree that we nitpick. What exactly are you accusing us of?

Did we complain about Reggie playing?

Did we complain about Brent wearing goggles?

Did we complain about Miranda wearing a Cammy outfit?

Did we complain about Francis wearing a Halo helmet?

Did we complain about Skull tripping on mushrooms?

Did we complain about them playing in the dark without a ref?

Did any of us ever say we would stop being PvP fans and burn all our tee shirts in protest?

If you even bothered to read this blog you would know the answer to all these questions, which is a big fat NO! This fast geek in yesterdays strip represents all the nitpicky emails he gets every day and not this blog.

The main things we've had a problem with recently are Marcy knowing about the mushrooms, the strip "alone in the dark" being drawn as if it's daylight (you'll notice Scott changes it in the next strip) and of course the whole nipplegate incident which ended the paintball game.

One thing that annoys me, is when idiots like "bas" comes on here and ignore all the good and positive things we say about both PvP and Ding! and just nitpick on some of the negative things we say.

That's right, about half the time we talk about some of the things Scott does well. Though we actually go into detail instead of just... HAHA THAT'S FUCKING AWESOME. Which you're probably more familiar with on the PvP forum.

Caren W. said...

Here are two comments from the PvP forum.


The majority are just seeing this and thinking "what the hell?"

----

:: raises hand ::

This is my first visit to the forums, and this strip makes much more sense now, thanks. I had to explain it to my friends who read PVP, none of whom were even aware that there was a forum attached.

Scott seems like a really nice guy most of the time - if he's really got 200k readers (going by what someone else said), why did he end a storyline that 99.9% of us had no complaints about for the sake of a few people here who didn't like it?

Oh well, I'm not unhappy with how things turned out (at least now that I know what's going on). I just wish that Scott hadn't let a few people with a bad opinion of the latest strips end a perfectly enjoyable storyline for the rest of us.


----

The strip was fun but it is a shame to keep screwing with the majority of the readers who are just trying to enjoy a good PvP story.

Anonymous said...

Oh, having an own opinion now makes me an idiot? Gee, thanks, very constructive.

What I was trying to say (in my first post before I magically reverted my opinion somehow because other people seem to have fun doing stuff like that) is not that you guys can't criticise the author. Criticism isn't a bad thing. Nope, that's ok.

What I mean is that if one does some comic and the second it goes online it's being disected and analyzed down to the smallest pencil stroke (well.. electronic pencil stroke). So that you get it right into the face to lunch break, then imho it's understandable that one gets a bit frustrated about that, because it borders into nitpicking.

If you write a long critic about an arc or a few lines about a strip, I think that's totally normal, but going down to the panel and even further is kind of obsessive (or in modern words, anal).

And I don't care if you say "It's good", "It's bad". Even though most stuff here reads like "Could have been done this way or that way". Which sounds like "I could have done it better" to the artist. Multiply that with the paragraph above and then it's something that will bother. IMHO.

So, that's what I meant.

But as I am already called an idiot, please don't bother replying to this since I probably won't bother comming back.

bas

Anonymous said...

On second thoughts, forget what I just said. It's your little community, you do whatever you want.

bas

Anonymous said...

Bas is also fat.

Sweats when he eats.
Eats when he sweats.

47 said...

From the above forum quote:

"Why did he end a storyline that 99.9% of us had no complaints about for the sake of a few people [...] who didn't like it?"

This wouldn't have happen if Kurtz himself wasn't at least a little disappointed in how things were turning out.

Recall Kurtz' comments from Nipples are fixed in place.

"So look. I get a lot that I abandon storylines. The thing is, I look ahead and think of possible more strips. If none of them are super-funny, why do them? Just to say I finished?"

Upon abandoning the paint-ball arc, he tried salvaging the continuity which worked out well enough. Though, with Marcy's recent slip-up he was probably asking himself the same question again, but this time finding himself with much less continuity worth salvaging.

Sage said...

Wow the non-bas anonymus people are swinging and missing tonite, must be all the ham.

I don't know why Carrie W called you an idiot as that was out of line. however, let me put my two cents towards your last post. We're fans of PVP and we enjoy talking about it on the blogspot. What does it matter if we chose to response as soon as its put up (which now is in the afternoons) How is it different than seeing a show on TV and then going online to talk about it. Also, if we see something weird or liked a facial expression in a certain panel, why can't we talk about it, that is not the definition of nit picking. Finally, if we say something was wrong about the strip, so what if we have a suggestion of our own. They are varying in degress of quality but it is better than just saying "Kurtz could have done it better". Really then, the quesiton after that is well show us how he could have. If he choses to take that as a personal affront, then well he's being too sensitive, as we are neither anyone he really knows or anyone that sponsors his work.

Oh a Carrie Jai and a few anonymus posters wondered out loud about Miranda's outfit and again Jai and a few others were wondering wjy a blind character would be in paintball or why the term "echo location" was used. TFSM even critiqued "and can we use our own markers" to "can we use our own markers." Im not saying this site is nothing but picking nits (sorry had to change up saying the same word over and over) far from it, but to say it never happens is wrong. Most of the comments on this site are very well written and while I may not agree with them, are valid arguements, but it does sometimes go too much one way.
Heck even TFSM admits he "flails"
sometimes.

The Founder said...

I'm gonna come right out and say it, this strip is clearly, obviously, undoubtedly and immutably the direct result of this very blog.

The comments that the nerd makes are too specific to things I have seen written here, to be construed otherwise. And let's face it, Scott has not made a good impression of himself here since the blog was started.

What Scott doesn't realize, and Scott I can only hope you will read this; is that we are not his critics, WE'RE YOUR FANS.

The majority of us, anyway. Most of us found this blog only because he pointed it out, most of us, myself included, have loved PVP from the very start and generally have nothing negative to say about it.

And, sadly, most of us, since coming here, have been immensely dissapointed with the immaturity and rude, childish, abrasive foolishness that Kurtz has subjected the blog too in recent months.

I am a fan of PVP, I always loved it. And while I tend to notice the same flaws, mistakes or confusions that FSM notices, I barely register them in my mind usually until I come here and relive them in his critique. And it's *good* critique, Scott could learn a lot from listening to it, as he once accepted.

FSM never bitches, rants or insinuates, he shares his feelings (albeit disturbingly well thought out) clearly, consisely and without prejudice. Then Scott comes here, decides he doesn't like it, and rants like a complete lunatic, shattering everyone's good impressions of him before running off on an imaginary victory horse.


This latest strip is clearly his way of "getting them back", I sense that he probably feels like he has tried to please everyone (making francis break the 4th wall to please FSM, recontinuing the paintball arc to satisfy Whiteboard and the rest of us, and generally making changes to suit day to day critique)

And by this point he probably thinks "no matter what I do they're not happy, they're clearly just being difficult" and decided to use his "power" as the artist to "get the last say" at our expense, and no doubt heard an imaginary cheering and applause the moment he published the comic.

But what he seems to have difficulty grasping is we're not some cult of scott haters here, and perhaps he is letting the fanclubs, franchise and general popularity get to his head. For whatever reason, he stopped just listening to critique, and started battling it.

Making Francis break the fourth wall just as a "test" was an immensely childish thing to do. He took FSM's words as literally as he could, like a five year old splitting hairs to win an argument. But the argument doesn't exist, Scott, you're not supposed to be trying to prove your critics wrong, there IS no such thing as an incorrect opinion.

We're not haters, I'm sure as hell not a hater, and I don't get the sense that FSM is a hater either. If you want to ignore his advice, IGNORE IT, if you think he's wrong, IGNORE IT. What you DON'T need to do is come here spewing rancid insults like an insecure child, then abusing your comic just to get the last word.

Now I am an admirer of Scott, I like how he takes other people's causes onto his own shoulders, and I enjoy his personality over the webcasts. And god knows, nobody can be perfect, and can't fault him for being a little insecure when it comes to critics. But the way he has been behaving here is beneath him, and I hope he realizes it.

I don't find this strip funny, because from where I'm standing it is obvious that this is Scott's way of simply getting the last word, he's trying to humiliate his critics by painting them in a slapstick and undignified light.


I'm a fan, an ordinary average fan like any other. Not a hater, not even a critic. And YOUR behaviour, Scott, has turned me from liking you, to disliking you. It's not because I'm biassed against you or in favour of FSM, it's because the way you act is childish and disgraceful. And you may well think that it doesn't matter, you don't need me, right? But if this is how it effected me, any other fan would or could be effected the same way. So think about that at least.

What I'm trying to say here, Scott, is that YOU'RE in the wrong, not me. Not FSM, and not the others who come here and have to put up with your behaviour.

PVP is your strip, you can do with it whatever you like. Feels powerful, doesn't it? But when you start using it just to settle your personal grudges and get your own back on others, it stops being the strip that people come to see. Sure, you may still be popular with the fanboys, but you'll still have killed the spirit in which it was created, wouldn't you?

I hope you think about that, next time you turn on a valued critic simply because he said something you didn't want to hear.



The Founder

Anonymous said...

Caren W.? Fat as well. Yep.

47 said...

That's a nice rant, The Founder, but it was a little TL;DR.

Anyone offended by this comic needs to grow some thicker skin. A good critic should be able give something a fair appraisal despite being a target of its satire. Look to TFSM's comments as an example.

"And YOUR behaviour, Scott, has turned me from liking you, to disliking you."

/me loads a paintball gun.

Jai said...

Safety first, kids. - A little tiny bit of ground is retread by pointing out that the Comic Strip Critic Guy in the previous strip was correct, but other than how the premise feels unnecessary this strip is solid. It's a good interaction between Cole and Brent, the dialogue is great, the jokes are funny. It does, however, feature the semi-frequent problem of either Cole being too tall or Brent being too short. The dialogue requires some artistic concessions, but I'd be happier if I could just see that Brent is simply sitting in a chair or some such. Yes, that is undoubtedly what most would call a nitpick. Nitpicks are simply pieces of criticism that are felt to be "irrelevant" and as useless as trying to rid yourself of lice by picking nits out of your hair. However, I don't see any problem with pointing out something I feel is an error. If I was content to leave Mr. Kurtz to wind his own merry way and weave as many errors and poor choices into PVP as he wished to under the presumed consent of my own silence, I would not be here. There is always some kind of a point to my griping, except for when I'm just being sarcastic. Sarcasm is fun and I can't help it. What *I* would consider to be a truly irrelevant nitpick is that Mr. Kurtz does not standardize the capitalization of words for his strips' titles.

nature waits for no game. - First and foremost, the artistic layout here is awesome. Great single panel shot. "Until just right now" is a damn clumsy phrase, but the worst part of this strip is that it just isn't very funny to me. I don't find it to be true in the least, for one thing, but I can see this strip hitting a lot closer to home for people who haven't heard a lot of World of WarCraft jokes. And I hate to say it, but the joke might have worked better for Ding!, from its in-game characters point of view. Still, my complaint is simply that I don't connect well to this type of humor, but since I don't expect every joke in PVP to be written just for me it's entirely forgiveable. In fact, there's not even anything to forgive. I have no doubt that the joke works very well for a pretty large audience.

Anonymous said...

I think, as always, you guys are overanalyzing this. To me, Scott's simply saying, "Hey guys, this is a comic strip, remember? Relax."

The Duck said...

I think perhaps the most interesting thing about this whole deal is that Scott himself made this blog what it is today. He went out of his way to link to it and say it was constructive criticism, so I came to check it out. Now he lashes out against it? I love the whole trainwreck factor to PVP nowadays. It keeps me coming back to both his site and this blog. Good stuff.

Nick said...

"early drafts"? Bwahaha!

The Founder said...

47,

I didn't say I was offended by the strip, I just pointed out that it obviously was indicative of Scott's continuing childish streak.

I said I don't like Scott because of his ACTIONS here, not because of his strip. Insulting FSM, yabbering on like a maniac trying to insist everything is funny.

Scott's presence here has convinced me that he's just got a side to him that I don't like. It has nothing to do with his comics, and I couldn't have made that more perfectly clear.


So hah.

**shoots you with paintballs.**



The Founder

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