Friday, August 1, 2008

Reasons and Purposes

No, I'm not going to write a manifesto, but I do have a few points to make:

A. Yes, I didn't get the joke. I do now, I admit it works, while simultaneously thinking it could be better; but --

B. No, I don't feel bad about it, it's not my job to get every joke -- in fact you can look at it as a failing of the strip when I don't; however --

C. I'm not saying it's PVP or Kurtz' fault that I didn't get the joke; you can't please everyone all the time (just ask the Europeans who don't know what Family Circus or Foxtrot are); every joke is going to miss someone. It doesn't mean 1) we're stupid, or 2) we don't get jokes, or 3) PVP sucks, or 4) I'm a failure as a blogger. It might mean it wasn't a great joke, but we all have to accept that this is subjective. Some people thought it was a great joke; plus --

D. I don't care if Kurtz is laughing at me (in this instance it's not un-warranted); because --

E. I'm not here to build a brand or create a reputation; mistakes don't hurt me because I will always be willing to fess up to them (this is pretty much true in real life as well). I am not writing with malicious intent, but neither am I writing for the readers. Don't get me wrong, I'm proud to have created a conversation that people like to participate in, and I am generally pleased not to be the only person who finds PVP seriously lacking; but, (without wanting to offend the Friends of Fake Scott McCloud, the thoughtful, non-anonymous commenters who make the blog worth coming to) --

F. I'm not here for you. I'm not here for Kurtz. I'm not here for money. I'm not hurting anyone, and anyone who thinks otherwise should consider that PVP has thousands, probably tens of thousands of readers, while I have maybe dozens. My reach is limited, especially since I am not interested in reaching out to a wider audience. I'm not on a mission, and I'm not about to go global. This is light-weight criticism from a non-professional writer.

To the commenters who tell me to shut down the blog because I suck -- I truly truly mean this, this is not snark:

Why the hell are you reading it?

174 comments:

Moo said...

Well said.

R.W.McGee said...

Indeed. And it is ridiculous that you get a lynch mob after missing one joke...Scott misses several jokes a week! *ba-dum chh!*

Keep doin' you thing FSM.

junkman said...

dude why the hell are you doing this blog?

Anonymous said...

This is the most ironic post in the history of mankind.

Dish it out, take it, etc.

Sage said...

Ha FSM we got your back, at least even in your mistakes you are enteraining and when you a proven wrong you dont sulk.

Sage said...

Also it proved

a) that you do have a pretty big readership (even if half are PVP fanboys that don't post until you make a mistake)

b) accoring to Yahtzee's Webcomics definition you created DRAMA, which should increase your view rate (you didn't do it purposely but still it happened)

FSM at least you can take criticism from your own supporters

Sage said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Junkman said...

This reminds me of the time Kevin Smith made that god awful flick Jersey Girl and it got panned by the critics. So what does Kevin Smith say? Well it wasn't made for the critics.

Its b.s.

So tell me Fake Scott McCloud.

WHY DID YOU MAKE THIS BLOG?

Blogs are ment to be read, that's kinda the point.

Who was ment to read this?

Sage said...

ment = meant?
ment = mint?
Ha

Sage said...

Oh and Scott just twittered that you flailed and ate yourself.

Plus he had to block the site? Does that mean he was driving himself crazy by still looking at it?

Anonymous said...

This blog was meant to be read by polite people who, even when they disagree with FSM, will do so in a polite and constructive manner. And when they don't, HOO BOY, you better look out because there's gonna be some little girl cryin'.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH

Junkman said...

I'm pretty sure Fake Scott McCloud said

"I'm not here for you. I'm not here for Kurtz."

Sage said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sage said...

i was making fun of the way you spelled meant junkman

FSM is saying he's here to express his opinion when he says that, hes not here to write to an audience or to appease someone. He expresses his opinion, he was wrong on this one, but right on others, but in the end couldn't (and really shouldn't) give a crap if people say shit to say shit like the anonymus users do

Now if only some webcomic artists could do that . . .

Junkman said...

That doesn't make any sense.

You write a blog for an audience. If he didn't want one he could make a journal or a diary.

Caren W. said...

He's making their (Scott Kurtz, Kris Straub, Paul Southworth, PvP forum users) job to discredit him more difficult when he responds like this.

I think they would rather he kick up a storm, start insulting Scott Kurtz and censoring anyone who disagrees with him.

Unfortunately for them, Fake Scott isn't like that. Infact that kind of behavior seems to come from those who attack Fake Scott and this blog.

Junkman said...

Am I the only one here not drinking the kool-aid?

I'm starting to think all these commenters are just Fake Scott McCloud alter-egos.

Zak said...

I read your blog because I've read it in the past, and I enjoyed the CONSTRUCTIVE criticism you were giving. It was nice to see someone care about something so much that they commented on what could make it better.

Now, you just bash the comic and give some convoluted thought as to how it could be better, when the idea is just as bad, if not worse, than the one in action.

I'll be the first to say PvP isn't perfect. Far from it. But until you can find a decent balance of actual valid criticism and picking at the bones of the carcass when there's still plenty of meat...

You'll always make me sadder than PvP.

Sage said...

Still there is nothing mfunnier than the webcomics community.

Moomin said...

zak I remember you, you've been critical of FSM since the beginning so don't lie.

@junkman I'd like to know, what do you hope to get out of this?

Junkman said...

Because FSM got under my skin with this last post. I honestly had no issue with him till this post.

You can even check I've never posted here before.

It was just such an arrogant post, I got passionate about it.

Sage said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
fox said...

I think we should all take a break, calm down and come back on Monday.

Have a great weekend guys.

Anonymous said...

I didn't make these comments for you or him!

I think I've come full circle so, g'night folks.

47 said...

It should come as no surprise that your readership is filled with critical bastards. We're pretty much your target audience.

(Ignore any trolls, btw. They just poke at any perceived weakness and are found everyone on the Internet.)

Sage said...

Well Junkman take that whole post as this.

He doesnt care so stop wasting your time. Its not a threat i just dont think it affects him.

Anonymous said...

You are so ARROGANT!

zoe said...

I love achewood :)

achewoodmakesmehappy

Anonymous said...

None of these comments are commenting for you, FSM! Why are you reading them?

You're absolutely right. you should be allowed to shout your criticism out loud, and if anyone has criticism for you, they need to shut their mouths.

Anonymous said...

Right on, FSM. Stick to your guns. And junkman, you're a punkass bitch.

Anonymous said...

This is worse than Livejournal.

Anonymous said...

OH NOES

http://twitter.com/pvponline/statuses/874968735

Anonymous said...

Do you have to make this Blog specifically about PVP? Christ talk about limitations and repetition. On the whole it seems Kurtz (in your view) is past his best, why not just have a page that says those three words and have done with it.

Zak said...

@moonin How do you "remember" me? I made two comments a couple months ago, and have been reading anonymously ever since, before making my two comments today, on this and the previous post.

Cat said...

Poor Scott, he must be really kicking himself for linking to this blog and making it so popular.

Not me however, I love this place. Fake Scott is far more professional than Kurtz and Fake Scott isn't even getting any money out of this.

shork said...

"To the commenters who tell me to shut down the blog because I suck -- I truly truly mean this, this is not snark:

Why the hell are you reading it?"

Says the guy who has lost all hope for PVP ever being good again (http://pvpmakesmesad.blogspot.com/2008/07/first-of-all-in-case-you-have-been.html), yet continues to read and blog about it.

Also, writing for yourself and not for the readers? That's called a diary.

I didn't even care you missed a joke, but let's not bullshit everyone about how you're *so above this*. (400 words above it, actually.)

Anonymous said...

FSM - 1
shork - 0

R.W.McGee said...

Actually, I think the score is:

FSM - 1
Frantic Kurtz apologists - stupid

paulsouthworth said...

"Stupid" isn't even a number, McGee. Come ON.

Your blog comments have really been slipping lately.

I'm gonna start a blog about it!

Anonymous said...

You disappoint me Southworth *sigh*

Sage said...

I would agree that maybe expanding the blog to maybe the webcomics in your "recommend" column as until there is some valiant change (maybe he will be inspired by SDCC) PVP isnt worth talking about this much. (not because its a webcomic, because its just so solidly average)

I vote for ALM, Menage, and XKCD (brilliant rubix cub/bra that i laughed out loud for)

paulsouthworth said...

Is... is this my wife?

Seriously baby, you know that almost never happens to me. I've just been under a lot of pressure lately, and this new medication I'm taking...

Sage said...

. . . and you ate a heavy meal!

paulsouthworth said...

Seriously honey, don't start that blog about me. I'll try harder next time.

Just don't mention my mother anytime in the next 24 hours and I should be good to go.

J said...

I've drank of the Kool-Aid.

Needs sugar.

Too many Anonymous' are taking this site as a hater site. The point - indeed, it original intent - was to critique PvP in whatever way we, the readers, saw that could, in theory, make it a better strip on a day to day basis. This included art slips, story padding, out-of-character experiences and humor-roll fails.

I've stated this before; we, of this site, and Fake Scott at the front, DO like PvP. Really. We just want to keep liking it. We don't think it's evenly kept. Where in the past the funny to unfunny ratio was 9:1, 8:2 on a bad week, now it seems to be more like 1:13.

When trolls keep whiny that we should stop reading if we don't like it goes against the point of our reading in the first place. We're waiting to it to return to how it was before. How we enjoyed it before. Maybe our mistake is thinking the past was better then it actually was. But you can re-read the entire history if you wish, and see how good it was. We want that again.

If you want true "See/Hear/Speak No Evil", go to the PvP forums and swim in those. They believe every strip to be gold. Wrought with diamonds. That Scott Kurtz is always, always at the top of his game.

We may not like every strip that floats under the headline, but we do acknowledge the ones that kick our ass.

Sage said...

*claps*
Hear Hear J

Sage said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sage said...

looking at the twitter posts reassures me that webcomicscommunitymakesmesad.

amboy00 said...

paulsouthworthsdongmakesmesad

Junkman said...

Do you guys just pick out what you want to read out of the comments people are making?

Do you read your posts?

You complain about people telling you to stop reading PvP if you hate it so much, but then Fake Scott McCloud says stop reading and commenting on this forum if you don't like what he says.

You say that its awful how Scott Kurtz's forums are all full of nothing but self gratifying fanboys, but then you're all constantly high fiving Fake Scott McCloud all the time.

???

Fake Scott McCloud said...

PVP folks are trying to sniff me out -- one even went so far as to include some tracking images in an email, and I've gotten a few unprompted password recovery emails.

I don't usually follow pvponline @ twitter, but he seems to think I'm in Brooklyn. I'll give you a hint: That's wrong.

Junkman said...

And now this has all de-evolved into some stupid cat and mouse game with Kurtz.

Seriously, I have no idea why you made this blog.

Anonymous said...

I'm in the UK, if you want Fake Scott, I can track down Callum Doughty and stop him from finding out your secret identity. I live in Cirencester so it won't take me too long.

Anonymous said...

Anyone else losing respect for Scott Kurtz? Why is he so obsessed about FSM and this blog?

Now he's got his fans doing his dirty work, trying to mess around and hack into FSM accounts.

Paul Southworth, does FSM deserve this kind of treatment?

Sage said...

We've never told Scott to shut down the site like people on here have. If you want something to shut down yet still check it out then thats the comment. Even though i think its mediocre I still check out PVP because I do/ or did like it and am interested in the next strip

Sage said...

From Scott's twitter
Whoa. Guys. Easy. I don't want to know his address. just curious if he's another webcomic guy. This manhunt is at a 10. I need it at a 4.

Well if you wanted to know his NAME then you likely needed to know something personal like address or IP address or something. Jesus and these are adults we are talking about.

BTW FSM i thought you would have been in Queens if you did live in NYC. :P

Sage said...

Ha Junkman this is for you:
Free original PvP artwork to anyone who can bring me the true identity of the Fake Scott McCloud

And people are starting to find IP adresses to find out who he is. Isn't the insanity coming from the source and not the blogger?

R.W.McGee said...

J's post is very well said, and I daresay speaks for much of the actual PVPMMS community.

This whole effort to expose FSM by Kurtz is somewhat disturbing to me. Using a large fan base to target one of your critics seems like an abuse of power.

Junkman said...

They're both behaving badly, but hell if i knew I'd be down for some free PvP artwork.

I haven't seen Fake Scott McCloud trying to stop this, he's only been fanning the flames.

Personally, I hope Fake Scott McCloud is Scott Kurtz.

Sage said...

Um Junk, how could FSM "stop this" Im truely interested, if he does or doesnt make a comment someone will still be looking

shork said...

Wow, words don't describe how disturbing that is.

Look, I was just poking fun at the blog, but I've never advocated censorship, and tracking anyone down like some kind of lynch mob is wrong, if not illegal.

Intentional or not, Kurtz has unleashed something incredibly stupid and dangerous.

FSM, you don't deserve this kind of treatment. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Sage said...

@paul
I believe the bullshit is coming from Mister Kurtz twitter site.

Anonymous said...

It's good to know you don't care about criticism of your criticism. I now know this because of the forceful and enthusiastic manner in which you told us with a post dedicated to it. All these protestations and justifications really highlight just how little you're affected by criticism.

Nicely done.

Sucked. Could have been better. I'm going to hug a unicorn now.

moomin said...

Hmm which side to join, the sensible guy who isn't insulting anyone or the guy who called us all assholes and offering prizes to track down and hassle Fake Scott.

Why the hell would Scott need to know his name and address? Fake Scott has never mentioned that he is a fellow webcartoonist and I believe him. Scott is just so obsessed with this blog and its community that he will do anything in his power to get rid of it.

It makes absolutely no ****ing sense and it annoys me. What is wrong with him? Are we personally attacking him? Are we harming his business? Are we threatening him in any way? NO!!!!!!!!!!!! So why the **** does he have to be such a ****ing jerk about this.

Oops, sorry for the swearing but this really annoys me and puts me in a foul mood.

For those who go on about us not taking criticism. If you want to comment or disagree with Fake Scott or anyone elses views, that's fine. We would just really appreciate it if you stopped adding "this blog has jumped the shark", "this is crap", "if you hate it so much stop reading it" and so on.

Junkman said...

Fake Scott McCloud isn't really helping either.

"I don't usually follow pvponline @ twitter, but he seems to think I'm in Brooklyn. I'll give you a hint: That's wrong."

Sounds like a BRING IT ON to me.

Anyways he's being an ass.

Anyways Sage don't reply to this because this critic wasn't for you or anyone. If you don't like it, well why do you keep reading my comments?

A friend said...

It's amazing to see other webcartoonists like Meredith, Southworth, Straub and Kellett approve of Kurtz behaving like this.

Sometimes I really hate the webcomic community. Hey Straub, maybe later we can go to all the Star Trek fora and hurl some abuse at all the users who have an opinion. That'll show 'em.

Junkman said...

I'm going to try and make a bridge for the fanboys of this site and Scott Kurtz site.

Moomin said "We would just really appreciate it if you stopped adding "this blog has jumped the shark", "this is crap", "if you hate it so much stop reading it" and so on."

He wants people who dislike this site to stop saying that about people here reading PvP. Okay fair enough.


But then Fake Scott McCloud asks why people who hate his website, "Why the hell are you reading it?"

OKAY HERE'S THE MAGIC TRICK! WATCH CLOSELY!

"if you hate it so much stop reading it" and "Why the hell are you reading it?"

Did you see the magic?

PVP FANBOYS AND FAKE SCOTT MCCLOUD SAID THE EXACT SAME THING!

About each other! Commence the making out.

You guys are more the same then you thought.

Anonymous said...

CLASSIC.

You have created a singularity. All webcomics will now cease to exist.

Junkman said...

Webcomics Biopsy

http://www.halfpixel.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=10

A real constructive criticism forum for folks. Did I mention its made by Kris Straub.

Hell, Something Awful forums has better criticism.

Zoe said...

Okay are we all done now with the drama now? Can I go to bed? Thanks everyone, see you all on Monday.

Anonymous said...

Too many Anonymous' are taking this site as a hater site.

Why the fuck would anyone want to post as anything but anonymous? I sure as hell don't want a bunch of rabid PVP fanboi losers tracking me down and killing me in my sleep. And after today I think that can be safely said without hyperbole.

Anonymous said...

Watch out FSM, when Kurtz tracks you down he's going to get his daddy to beat up your daddy and then where will you be? Crying in the larder, that's where.

Anonymous said...

Scott Kurtz has sunk to a new low. :(

I really hope his halfpixel friends will encourage him to stop this and just accept the fact that some of his fans want to talk about his comic beyond "haha that was fucking hilarious" which he can read on the PVP forum.

Sage said...

~@junkman
Its called a discussion, I though I was tlaking to you. Hell you even admitted BOTH were behaving badly and I agree with you to a point about FSM's response, even though fishing for passwords is ridiculous and caused by:
Scott Kurtz

Also, that was FSM's opinion, ill keep readnig and responding to iy. ITs not like he's my lord and savior who i follow blindly (i joke, but thats saved for my fiancee)

Sage said...

@junkman
Also we've ALL said we enjoy PVP and just like to talk about good and the bad (its actually pretty quiet on here when scott puts out solid stuff)

The anonymus funbags here have shown no such love and just want it to shut down because they cannot stand criticism, are fanboys, or are just trolls.

kind of differentiate there meaning?

Ti Chan said...

"That doesn't make any sense.

You write a blog for an audience. If he didn't want one he could make a journal or a diary."

I missed a lot of the drama, as I was helping raise babies (something that seems to come with a lot less tantrum and whining then these anons gave...) and wanted to point something out to this comment and others like it.


FSM started the blog with no followers. He continued for something like A MONTH with NO USERS reading. If he wanted to make this for tons of people to read, he would have probably found some drama filled way on Scott's forum to get readers.

Also, I am actually impressed with how he handled himself. Does anyone else think the anon telling him to quit might have been Scott hiding?

Anonymous said...

Does anyone else think the anon telling him to quit might have been Scott hiding?

According to Kurtz's Twitter Straub had to NetNanny this blog to keep Kurtz from visiting. Kind of sad and yet it's unsurprising that Kurtz would continue to remain obsessed with this place even after he said he was through here.

Anonymous said...

Well we all know what Scott is like and he's lied plenty of times. I'm pretty sure he still checks out the blog. He just wants us to think he doesn't.

This little stunt has only increased the blogs audience. We've never had this many posts in one day before.

J said...

*bangs head against wall*
Damn, what captures our focus is amazing. Okay, let me try this...

@anonymous3:17
My point was trollers who post anonymous, just so they can monkeyfling without fear of being pointed at specifically. Nobody is asking for a full record of whoever you are. But when you at least have a label, you have a name, an identity. What my fear is, is that one person(s) is posting multiple times and using anonymous as a way to make it seem more people then there are. If it's just you, fine. If there's more, fine. But anonoymous is just that; nobody.

@junkman
Making the connection between RealScott and FakeScott fanboys isn't that big. Politics is the same way. Same coin, same target, two sides.

Also, to answer your question; yes, I (myself, anyway) do actually read the posts. I read as refreashed as I can get them, and then reply as well as I can on what's been given.

This may "fan the flames", but I feel it needs to be said.
There is a difference when FakeScott says "Don't read this if if makes you angry."
This site, PvPMMS, is unapologetic in what it is, a criticism and critique blog. FakeScott started it because he was, and still is (maybe) a fan of the strip. And many of us come here because of the fact we can "let loose" on what we may not agree with in how the strip is handled. Do we have any influnce? Only as much as Kurtz allows and he stopped that because he realized he can't please everyone, and trying to (especially for us, here) would only be circular insanity.

You, any of you, come to this sight to see what is said. You know that in coming to PvPMMS there is a 97% chance that we will not like that days strip, or enjoy it as much as an uberfan, or will enjoy nitpicking some small detail (ex/ the "Handshake-Diss" vs "Photo into Jacket" debate, or "mittenhands") because this is what the site is, or has become.

We like it, both the PvP comic itself and comparing what others might have done different. That's why we come back.

If you DON'T like how we critique, then really you should stay away. It's self torture to go someplace you don't enjoy, just for the point of making yourself angry at people you don't agree with in the first place just so you can complain about them.

This isn't apologetic, it's how it is.

*sips the Kool-Aid*

Refreshing. Enjoy.

Junkman said...

Ugh, that's the most overused excuse on this blog.

It's okay for me to act like a douche cause I like it...sometimes.

Also J, this is a blog so stop using the "we" stuff. Its Fake Scott McCloud's.

You want to have a REAL critique? Do it on a forum.

http://www.halfpixel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5494

It's a link directly to Halfpixel's (omgz) Webcomics Biopsy, PvP section.

You just have to abide by the rules.

"Hi all. Based on the fascinating, even-tempered conversations in the PvP Forum, I'm making a new forum especially for webcomics dissection. In here we'll discuss webcomic techniques as used by webcartoonists, in an applied setting.

In other words, if today's Questionable Content really nailed a joke, bring up its strengths here. Can the same joke work in a different setting? What was right about it? For what audience?

Or, if today's Starslip really fell flat, or could have used something extra in the second panel to make it clearer, you can discuss that too.

ABOVE ALL THE DISCUSSIONS SHOULD REMAIN ABOUT THE WORK, NOT THE CARTOONIST. No personal attacks, no questions of character or ethical intent, no below-the-belt punches. We're talking about webcomics in a critical way, and it should always be above-board and intellectual.

I will be heavily moderating this forum as I'm afraid it has the potential to become a fist fight. In the end opinions can differ and we may all just have to state our cases and give up on convincing the other party. But some good insights may result from the dialogue! That's what I'm hopeful for.

I don't think the webcomics community has really been capable of this kind of conversation in the past. It always became either too personal, or high-level to the point of academicism. Let's keep it real, and keep it webcomics.

Aces,

Kris"

The only thing I see here is shit slinging by one guy.

For you commenters I have no clue why you stand by him.

R.W.McGee said...

Gee whiz Junkman...would I rather post in the heavily moderated and strait-jacked forums which are run by the actual web-comic creator and are heavily infested by fan-boys?

Or, would I rather have an intelligent discussion on a lightly moderated blog that deals with a web-comic on an analytical level and generally draws more interesting opinions?

Hmmmm...tough choice...

Wait, no it isn't.

(Hell, even Kurtz preferred this blog to his forums until it got to critical for his taste.)

Anonymous said...

"B. No, I don't feel bad about it, it's not my job to get every joke -- in fact you can look at it as a failing of the strip when I don't; however --

C. I'm not saying it's PVP or Kurtz' fault that I didn't get the joke; you can't please everyone all the time (just ask the Europeans who don't know what Family Circus or Foxtrot are); every joke is going to miss someone. It doesn't mean 1) we're stupid, or 2) we don't get jokes, or 3) PVP sucks, or 4) I'm a failure as a blogger. "

And yet you launch into these posts of yours with total conviction that it's Kurtz's fault you don't get something. Now I'm not defending PvP - it's good sometimes, not othertimes - but you can't lay into something and then when it turns out you were wrong suddenly claim you didn't mean it. What gets you into these situations (imho) is that you think you're Always Right. Try taking a deep breath before writing, looking objectively at a strip before commenting, and realising that humour can be (a) subtle, and (b) the sum of its parts, before atomising and dissescting every inconsequential segment of a strip.

Anonymous said...

My point was trollers who post anonymous, just so they can monkeyfling without fear of being pointed at specifically. Nobody is asking for a full record of whoever you are.

Do you not fully grasp the current situation? Scott asked his fanbois to track down FSM, and THEY'RE DOING IT! Why the hell would I want any sort of ID associated with my posts, trolls or otherwise, if there's a chance Kurtz decides to send his cult after me? Think I'm being melodramatic? Let me reiterate: SCOTT ASKED HIS FANBOIS TO TRACK DOWN FSM, AND THEY'RE DOING IT.

As for you, Junkman, you need to understand that Scott is a douche and often does some very stupid and childish things (e.g. see above) and so often times it is appropriate to comment on behavior of the cartoonist.

Anonymous said...

Just on a side note too: I'm dissapointed by this blog, because I think it's failed as criticism. Not, you know, been too harsh, or been fanboyish, or anything like that - it's that it's failed to be in any way a decent critique of its subject.
FSM just goes into many strips *wanting*, it seems, to find fault. That's not a healthy base to critique from.
And then, having decided he's not going to like the strip (the tone of his posts usggest as much, as does the contents: taking major issue with how thick a line is or the size of Brent's chin...as if those actually affect the over all humour in the strip to the degree he suggests) he looks for anything in it he can call a fault. Guess what: *everything* can be called rubbish by those criteria. If you applied FSM's method to any webcomic, hell, any piece of writing/art/film/whatever, you'd come out with the same "...makesmesad" conclusion.

Get a sense of perspective. Without one, you never be able to criticise objectively.

Anonymous said...

Honestly, I'm not upset with you, and this wouldn't be an issue or a site I visited often if Kurtz didn't actually take it seriously.

The problem isn't you, at least not the major problem. It's good to take your critics seriously, to consider their advice, and to decide whether or not it has merit.

The problem is that the advice HAS no merit, yet Kurtz pays attention to it anyway. I've noticed, since he's become aware of this blog, a slip in his writing, a move away from jokes, and even a failure to develop the characters as he sees fit. He's too buzy trying to make people happy who didn't even like the comic to begin with.

The criticism is bad. There's no question about that. I mean, occassionally you stumble on a good point (Jase's bipolar moment in the wedding story for insance), but for the most part, you take what's fun and interesting about the jokes (subtlety, immature gaming humor, dick and fart jokes) and the characters (Cole's fatherly role towards Francis, the staff's rivalry with Max, etc.) and write long, ranting posts (much like this one) about how they don't fit into the PvP you'd like Scott to draw for you.

You're free to do this. You're free to say that Scott needs to hit us over the head with every joke, that he needs to stop making Cole treat Francis like a son, and that he ought to avoid the gags and hooks that PvP readers have come to know and love.

The problem is that now he writes soap operas instead of jokes. He does long, complicated storylines that he thinks makes his critics happy, when really all they do is ruin it for the people who actually liked the comic. I knew things were slipping when he gave you a nod in the paintball storyline. You wrote a glowing post, so happy you were to be mentioned.

I'm glad you have a constructive creative outlet where you can discuss this sort of thing, and naturally everyone is entitled to an opinion. I just wish Scott would ignore yours.

R.W.McGee said...

Blaming this blog for Scott's failings is more an indictment of Scott then the blog. He doesn't have to read it...I happen to agree with you though, I think at one point he did listen too much to this blog to his detriment...but I think that stopped a while ago.

Trev said...

I know I'm late to the party, but right on FSM. Frankly, webcomics seem to have this weird aversion criticism that doesn't include the phrase "While I think this comic is AMAZING, I..." It's nice to see some constructive criticism from a comics fan, and a little disturbing to see the somewhat facile reactions that range from confusedly sarcastic to needlessly caustic. Heck, even Paul Southworth -- whose comic I really do enjoy! -- kind of disappoints when he attacks, though at least he plays along.

In conclusion, thanks for saying something, it's, for what it's worth, pretty fun to read.

Sage said...

The only funny PVP's to me this month the 1st, 3rd, 11th and 31st.

A lot of what the problem this month was that post wedding Kurtz has had some problems. First off he had two ideas for storylines that not a lot people wanted or liked (Pandas doing it and FC) abd tge subsequent jokes and story telling did nothing to pull those story lines out. Im sure a good amount of people wanted to see the paintball arc but again the storyline and jokes fell flat until he had a to hit the eject button (neck beard). Also have any of the one-offs been GOOD? Please defend that, only Scratch's was sweet but not all that good.

The people here can't REWRITE the whole strip to fix its biggest weakness.
Scott has been better with his schedule and his art where there is nothing too big to criticize. However how can we suggest new storylines without the subsequent "why dont you write your own webcomic" bullshit. If you want suggestions then: Marci/Francis go to school(likely upcoming) Marci/Francis go around the country before school, Jase at the mansion with Butler, Reggie and Miranda dating, Brent and Jade as a gaming.married couple, Ding! (he hasnt done it on crispy in a while), Scratch going nuts and trying to take over the world. Skull on his own is good the FC execution was 1/5 on good comics though

What about one-offs you say? Iron-man kid, Panda attack out of a wedding gift (the size of a toaster), Hulk/Hancock/Hellboy (it was the summer of superheroes), BATMAN (still could be coming and the "THEY KILLED MY PARENTS" Batman was the funniest strip he ever produced and of all webcomics), um and making fun of DJ Coffman? A little more pop culture would break up our immersion in the office world

Sage said...

Btw when did we get a mention in the paintball arc?

We got a mention in his podcast where he said something nice about us and we responded in kind. then everything went all flaily . . .

Sage said...

I meant robbie at the mansion

Sage said...

sHa well i did the IP search the kid from Scotts twitter search did using my own IP address

Apparently I live off the wester Coast of Africa . . . IN the Atlantic. I would say take those results with a grain of salt

From your local offshor oil rig.
Sage

R.W.McGee said...

I always suspected you were a merman Sage =P

Those cable charges must be a pain in the arse, lol.

Sage said...

Yeah it sucks though, i get a lot of head colds :)

birdman said...

I've been holding off all day, but I really want to say this.

Anon @ 6:59

I tend to agree with you that too much is made to try and find something to critique in each strip. However, I tend to think that it's more a failing of the form than anything else. Putting up a post for each strip, hell, even each week, will have one picking a hell of a lot of nits. (Which is why I comment so rarely.) A four panel strip really isn't a lot of content to critique. The end result of trying to is nit picking, pulling at straws or getting redundant, all of which we've been witness to at various times on this blog.

Individually critiquing each installment of great strips (C&H, Peanuts, etc), rather than as a body of work, would probably surface a lot of faults that don't really exist. (Which is not to say that there aren't any problems with PvP, just critiquing every strip on its own isn't the way to go about identifying them.)

birdman said...

Oh, yeah. Kurtz's attempt to unmask theFSM is despicable.

Of course, everyone has always known he's one of the biggest sources of Web Comics Drama.

Sage said...

@Birdman
Yeah I agree, thats why I think a move to a weekly critique of a fewcomics may be a good move to get a larger sense of whats going on

Of course we will argue over which webcomics :)

J said...

I'm a personal fan of the thirty story underground base on eBay. But I ended up in Kansas, near the Texas border. I'm Superman's neighbor I guess.

I will gladly go with this new direction.
Story suggestions:
-admendment of sage's, Scratch goes forward with his world domination, the goal being to get Skull back
-what the hell did happen to Jase? Didn't he hook up with the gardner?
-Francis makes another fan movie
-Cole has an affair (ZING!)
-Skull gets a new kid, so perfect he doesn't have anything to do, grows frutrated, drives kid to hijinks

and this one directed at this site (and any others like it), and those who read/post;

-PvP, the magazine, must get mail from it's readers. Not all of them can be good. Cole seems the type to take those bad letters to heart. Scott could use that idea to "directly" have his say at those who say nay. Have the PvP crew read 'letters' and just let them have at in response.

J said...

I found out who he is!

FakeScottMC is Keyser Söze!

...waitaminute

Anonymous said...

@Birdman:

It's kind of weird. There's no 'odd' situation that Kurtz can't escalate to full-blown drama. He seems to know exactly what to do to put himself in a bad light.

Offering a prize to track someone down? Pathetic.

Anonymous said...

100th post!

Orchid64 said...

If the Twitter comment is true, it reflects very poorly on Scott Kurtz as a professional. It's borderline stalkerish to make such a request. It's like placing a bounty on someone and not stating why that bounty was placed. If he gets the real information, what will he do with it?

It's not like FSM is harassing Scott in his home or trying to arrange for people to come to his place of business and hassle him. It's just wrong if it's true.

I'm hoping it's all faked.

If it is true, the best thing FSM can do is contact Kurtz directly and give him the information himself. Hand him the gun and see if he shoots you with it. If he does, it'll tell everyone something about Scott Kurtz and, honestly, it could really have bad repercussions for Kurtz's career if he stalks down detractors and has fans cause them problems.

Jai said...

One hundred comments, and not a single "I am Spartacus" joke?

I am the fake Scott McCloud.

hnm said...

No, I'M the fake Scott McCloud

Anonymous said...

No I'M the Fake Scott McCloud!

i wish said...

Please tell me someone has started a Fake Scott McCloud Makes Me Sad blog. I'd read that.

Sage said...

Funny thing is now the kid who "located" FSM to Brooklyn is get calls from someone sounding like theyre masterbating. I wish I could somehow pat him on the back (um when hes done) because karma is a bitch

Sage said...

Ok, Well if its that same guy who harassed Renee Engstrom then thats not right. If it isn't, Karma is a bitch

K guys Im off to look at reception places (joy! wish me luck) I hope the site isnt on fire when I get back.

Anonymous said...

I think we all know the truth. FSM and Scott McCloud are the same person. I know FSM's icon has glasses, BUT you ever notice how you never actually see them both in the same place at the same time?
LOL

Anonymous said...

If you hate PVP so much why do you bother reading it and blogging on it. Seems rather ironic that you strike out against people that don’t like your blog here but still read it, essentially your doing the exact same thing with PVP.
‘I'm not here for you. I'm not here for Kurtz. I'm not here for money.’- Then keep it saved on your hard drive.

Anonymous said...

That Callum Doughty is an idiot, he messaged Renee Engstrom 3 times about that phone call. Well done for reminding her about it Callum.

Anonymous said...

"I know FSM's icon has glasses, BUT you ever notice how you never actually see them both in the same place at the same time?"

It's weird but I've never seen me and Oprah Winfey in the same place at the same time either... makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Soooo, who wants a free car!

Anonymous said...

"Oprah Winfey"

Hmm. If I was Oprah Winfrey, I'd probably know how to spell my own name. I guess that theory is shot down. Sorry folks, I guess no-one gets a car.

y knee said...

Fake Scott donated over $100 to Achewood.

Scott Kurtz is willing to donate original PvP artwork to anyone who can hack into FSM accounts and find out his true identity.

They couldn't be more different.

ButtPlugg669988 said...

"FSM started the blog with no followers. He continued for something like A MONTH with NO USERS reading. If he wanted to make this for tons of people to read, he would have probably found some drama filled way on Scott's forum to get readers."

Yeah, okay. That would be true only if he hadn't posted in on the global fucking computer network known as the internet.

"My point was trollers who post anonymous, just so they can monkeyfling without fear of being pointed at specifically. Nobody is asking for a full record of whoever you are. But when you at least have a label, you have a name, an identity."

BZZZT! Wrong, asshole. A fake name like Barney, Stacey, or ButtPlugg669988 doesn't mean shit. It's the content of the post that matters. As that's all anyone has on which to base a reply, one would think that would be obvious by now. A fake name is no more real than no name. As a matter of fact, one could say that anons are more honest since they don't bother with the silly pretense of a fake name at all. It's pure content without the silly trappings of a falsified identity.

"What my fear is, is that one person(s) is posting multiple times and using anonymous as a way to make it seem more people then there are. If it's just you, fine. If there's more, fine. But anonoymous is just that; nobody."

Your fear would be relieved by the use of fake names how, exactly? Fake names are nobody, too. Unless, of course, you drop your kids off at ButtPlugg669988's daycare every morning...

"...because he realized he can't please everyone..."

As long as people use fake names to please you, though. Right?

Chet said...

Huh. I kinda get the impression you don't much like being put in the position of having to defend your work from critics and nay-sayers, FSM. Especially when you feel those criticisms might be ill-founded?

Does that maybe put your "work" here at "PVP makes me sad" into just a little bit of context? Or are you going to continue to blame others (Scott Kurtz, "trolls", etc) for your own failings?

Anonymous said...

Actually Chet if you had bothered to read the post you would note that FSM freely admits that he screwed up and that the criticism is warranted. But feel free to keep grasping at straws and trying to paint Kurtz and FSM with the same brush.

Chet said...

Actually Chet if you had bothered to read the post you would note that FSM freely admits that he screwed up and that the criticism is warranted.

I actually did read the post, "anonymous", and what I saw was that FSM couldn't get over his own pique and sore feelings long enough to admit that he'd actually fucked up.

No, it was a grudging "ok, it was a little funny, but still not good enough" non-apology, and it's made it abundantly clear that the whole point of this exercise is that FSM has an obsession with Scott Kurtz, and that PVP could never possibly be funny or good enough to merit the approval of FSM.

He's not a critic, because what he does is not critique. He's just someone using his blog to take potshots at someone smarter and funnier than he is. We all know the type. (You should, especially, because you're exactly the same.) And, surprise of surprises, when FSM had a little of the same medicine turned back on him, he didn't like it one bit and everybody else was to blame.

Another anonymous said...

I strongly disagree with you chet and if you give me half an hour I'll explain why.

Anonymous said...

I actually did read the post

Are you sure? You still seem to be having some trouble grasping what FSM actually said. It's ok, I know big words and paragraphs can be scary.

In any event, it's hard to tell if your comments are meant to be ironic or if you're just another hypocrite fanboi, considering you also seem to run a blog dedicated entirely to taking pot shots at someone else's blog.

R.W.McGee said...

Um, judging by Chet's last post, I think this thread may be his first time reading FSM...as several times in the past FSM has given Kurtz credit for strips (Lawlbat springs to mind) even when others were critical.

Anonymous said...

Dear God! Kurtz did NOT ask anyone to hack into FSM's account. For f's sake people. That's how lawsuits get started.

Anonymous said...

Well how else do you find someones identity when all they have is a blogspot account? Trying to get into his account is the first thing they all tried and Scott Kurtz knew they would.

Oh and please don't swear, this is a family friendly community. Thank you!

Anonymous said...

Dear God! Kurtz did NOT ask anyone to hack into FSM's account. For f's sake people. That's how lawsuits get started.

Your lack of understanding of the situation is astounding.

I have to admit, I kind of hope you fanboi's stick around. Most of your comments have been a funnier read then the comic.

Anonymous said...

Hail Kurtz! Immortal Kurtz! He shall never be destroyed! Cut off one limb and another one shall grow in its place!

Chet said...

You still seem to be having some trouble grasping what FSM actually said.

No, but I wonder if you did. See if you can stop idolizing FSM for a second and read what he actually wrote:

I realized after I posted this, and the first commenter pointed out: the whole joke might be that the line is straight, and the FC kids wouldn't be able to find them because it is straight. Fair enough, I retract my opinion that it's big FAIL.

However, I think there's potential for a much better joke there, a clearer one. A decoy dotted line leading away from Skull and whatshisname would have been cleverer


Well, it wouldn't have been "cleverer", because it wouldn't have even been a joke, and unless FSM has all the sense of humor of a turnip I think he has to know that.

It's just that he has to suggest something, or else he's forced to admit that the "straight line right to them" gag is a pitch-perfect raspberry at Bill Keane's Family Circus.

I've read PVP-MMS before, and never been much impressed by the criticism - FSM invariably picks the weakest strips of the week and thinks he's a genius for pointing out their obvious failings - but this was really where even the pretense of "criticism" fell through.

FSM isn't interested in "criticism" at all, he's interested in whatever flimsy excuse he can find to trash PVP. It's just that simple.

And then when a dozen people recognize that, we get the bitch-fest that prompted this conversation. Try to imagine FSM's response if Scott Kurtz had written such a defensive, disingenuous post. At least from Scott you get an open recognition of his failings, and despite his vast success in the field of webcomics, you never get the sense that he thinks of himself as anything but a guy who's just out there, winging it every day, trying to draw a four-panel strip.

FSM could learn, I think, from that kind of humility. And you could, too.

Nono said...

I'll let sage and mcgee handle this, I've had enough.

Sage said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sage said...

@chet

Picking the weakest PVP out of the weak, in most weeks, is like picking the cutest puppy out of the litter, such as this week when he went 1/5 last week, week of the 7th, 14th, and 21st maybe 1-2/15. The best week was the week of 6/30 was 2/5 for me with Lolbat that a lot of people liked. So trust me there is a lot of material to go after.

If you disagree tell me which of the Panda strips, one-offs, or christian fundamentalist you like and i still bet it wont go over 50% for those who are lucid.

Dont worry nono, we'll still be here talking about what we like to talk about and we dont have to "Scott Kurtz approved" or "Scott Kurtz fanbase approved"

The reason I read PVP? Is because at its BEST its right behind or equal to Penny arcade as a webcomic HANDS DOWN. At its worse its solidly average or mediocre, which is its current state. If you see something that can be so good yet falls a little you want to talk about it (see Lost for stretchs or the second season of Heroes for other examples.)

Sage said...

also when did me and RW become the bouncers of this place? :P

R.W.McGee said...

if it's a paying job, I'm there! lol.

I notice Chet ignored my last post though, but in short...again you are acting as though FSM is always negative, and that has simply NOT been the case.

Sage said...

Plus FSM is flailing a little, less then or just as much as Scott and hes told his audience to fuck off a few times and YOU still follow him, so we both support those that arent always Obama-esque in there responses :) (or McCain-esque if ur a reddie)

Anonymous said...

Nice work Chet. I criticize you for failing reading comprehension 101 and your rebuttal is to post something from Thursday, even though this is the discussion topic for Friday.

Sometimes it's just too easy.

Sage said...

To prove that heres his July 2 post referring to Yahtzee's How to webcomics (he criticizing Buckley for his sillies or yelling at someone else and people were admonishing him on his own site):

fuck you guys.

You can roll around in the mud and when I ask to jump in, you're offended and suddenly I can't participate because I'm above it all?

http://www.halfpixel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=185200&highlight=#185200

What does that show no one's perfect so why are we throwing stones around here, plus this makes it a bigger deal than it ever was (plus Scotts "bounty")

hnm said...

For what it's worth, I think both FSM AND Kurtz have been behaving less than optimally lately. On the one hand, Kurtz is generally a jerk. He behaves like a spoiled child whenever he doesn't get his way or people criticize him. He has a tendancy to take things way too personally and become instantly uber-defensive over little things, and frequently behaves in an unprofessional manner. However, I enjoy PVP and his douchebaggery isn't going to make me stop reading.

Similary, I think FSM has ALSO recently been behaving unprofessionally. I as well got the definite feeling that he was picking nits just to be negative for the sake of it. He's also had a much more unpleasant tone in his more recent posts and seems to be getting rather defensive a lot lately, as well. BUT, I enjoy discussing things and I like the people who post here, so I won't stop posting here either.

Chet said...


I notice Chet ignored my last post though, but in short...again you are acting as though FSM is always negative, and that has simply NOT been the case.


When you said that, I went through the last 4 pages of posts and skimmed.

I couldn't find one single legitimate praise of Kurtz's work that wasn't either grudging acceptance ("this wasn't awful, at least") or a backhanded criticism ("I was sure Kurtz was going to mess this up") or the like.

At which point I knew you were just another hater, McGee. I challenge you to post a single admiring post from this blog that doesn't, in some way, undercut that praise with nit-picking.

Chet said...

I criticize you for failing reading comprehension 101 and your rebuttal is to post something from Thursday, even though this is the discussion topic for Friday.

You'll have to explain to me what this is supposed to mean. Thursday's post, after all, is the context for Friday's.

I'm simply not seeing how this is supposed to be a point against me, or my point in general.

Chet said...

Addendum to 4:31 PM:

And that's an admiring post about Scott Kurtz and PvP, not anything else. I know FSM likes Achewood and he's not shy about it.

R.W.McGee said...

"Friday, February 29, 2008
Brace Face
So -- decent dialogue, solid video game reference, nice art, a working punchline (Head Gear) -- it's a solid PVP.
Posted by Fake Scott McCloud at 5:55 PM 21 comments Links to this post"


Enjoy Chet. And that is just the first one I found, there are plenty more.

Ti Chan said...

I love how you either have to making some lovely post about Kurtz or you're a hater. The truth is, to be a real fan, to really like something and not blindly devote yourself to it, you have to take the good with the bad. Being so, I think the good with the bad is such:

Scott is an egocentric, whiny bastard. He feels that because PVP has so many fans, he is godly and golden and no one should say anything against him. He picks childish fights against the littlest things and tends to respond to anything he perceives as negativity with a tantrum. And once he's called out on it, he either responds with something like "I've had a bad day" or "That wasn't me".

That aside he is still a good person for the most part. He has a good family upbringing, but will use PVP to give his own moral an outlet...

PVP WAS a great comic. Really golden. As of late, I think that he's started to run out of steam. Ten years is a LONG time to keep at ONE THING. Recently, with the paintball/panda story lines and the recent mistakes in his own timeline (the college money/scratch talking to people story blunders), the comic has been drowning in itself. The art is defiantly getting better, but it is becoming harder for him to solid jokes or solid storylines without some flailing in between.

Anonymous said...

Scott has 3 distinct personalities.

One is a big blubbering woman. This one comes out te most.

The second is a stupid child. This one came out with the manhunt.

The third is a very large phallus that likes to slap people across the face and leave his sticky residue everywhere. This one comes out when he's called on the other two personalities.

So Scott, oh ye who is greatly obsessed with this blog--- Grow some nuts, grow up, and stop being a dick.

Anonymous said...

I love how y'all just jump on the most minor shit, like Chet's post, and ignore real criticism. It's almost like y'all are...fanboys of FSM.

Imagine that.

*sip*

BTW, Kurtz calling for FSM's virtual head IS asking for them to hack. There's no other way to get the information. He's a huge fucking cockhole for that supremely dick move. There's just no getting around that any more than there's any way of getting around Kurtz in your average grocery store aisle.

Sage said...

xxwell anonymus he DID challenge us :)

As for the challenge from 6/30:
regarding Kevin "Kevin -- we hardly knew ye. I thought this was a great week of strips. It was finally the break we needed from the wedding/sex/Scratch-fest, and do I feel bad that he died? No. It's a cartoon character. He died in an accident. Through his own idiocy. The fact that Skull failed to protect him is obviously gristle for some sort of professional EPIC FAIL on Skull's part, and the art in the final strip is to die for. (Haaa haahaha, haa. Ha.)"
A Great WEEK he said

Sage said...

And regarding LOLbat (which i didn't get but a fair amount of people enjoyed):
"LOLBAT? Was teh awesome. The only thing I wish it had was smoke and a screech as the invisible bike peeled out. That would have totally completed it for me."

So thats 3 at least and I found both of those three clicks of "older posts" ago.

So he liked the stuff at the end of june and early July and didnt like the rest of July, basically reflecting the quality of the work this month (in my humble opinion)

Sage said...

Also, I love DING! too and has been conistently good, but it hasnt been consistantly there.
:)

Anonymous said...

"Fake Scott donated over $100 to Achewood.

Scott Kurtz is willing to donate original PvP artwork to anyone who can hack into FSM accounts and find out his true identity.

They couldn't be more different."


Reminds me of back in 2004. It was the second year of Child's Play and the Penny Arcade guys were selflessly stirring up their fans to donate gifts for kids in hospital.

Scott Kurtz, however was selfishly stirring up his fans to donate money so he could buy himself a Mac.

As Kurtz put it himself - "As of the date I took down the donation link, I had earned just over 1100 bucks.". Yeah, 'earned'. Begging is like a job, ain't it?

Penny Arcade raised $310,000 that year. So easily could have been $311,100.

Anonymous said...

Re: "Why the hell are you doing this?"

He's doing it for readers of PVP like me who agree that Kurtz is just phoning it in these days. He's become too obsessed with shilling his other projects to help pay the rent, instead of focusing on what got him this far: his art. And by that, I mean more than the drawrings, I mean what used to be a fun, lighthearted strip about gaming and geeks that I could read in the mornings.

PVP's jumped the shark, but it's a strip I'm fond of, so I can't or won't stop reading because of the (possibly misguided) hope I have that it will return to its former glory.

FSM speaks for me and he should keep it up.

Chet said...

Enjoy Chet.

Enjoy what? Let's have a link.

And one post in more than half a year kind of proves my point.

Chet said...

I love how you either have to making some lovely post about Kurtz or you're a hater.

Yeah, basically. I mean, what's unreasonable about that? If your goal is to provide a fair and balanced criticism of PvP, then you'll praise it when its good and snark on it when it's not. I'm the first one to admit that PvP has its ups and downs, but the "dotted-line" strip was just pitch-perfect comedy, and the fact that FSM couldn't bring himself to acknowledge that is proof that an honest critique isn't his bag, here.

Like yours, it's just about hating everything that Scott Kurtz does. And how pathetic is that? He's just a guy that draws webcomics. I mean for fuck's sake he doesn't even charge you money to read them - they're on a free website!

Chet said...

"LOLBAT? Was teh awesome. The only thing I wish it had was smoke and a screech as the invisible bike peeled out. That would have totally completed it for me."

LOL! That's exactly what I'm talking about. Even when FSM thinks it's "awesome" he's talking about how he wishes it were different and what he would do to make it "better."

FSM is incapable of honest praise. Even his compliments are just backhanded excuses to criticize Kurtz.

Anonymous said...

Chet -- Whether you like the product you're reviewing or not, suggestions for improvement are the very definition of constructive criticism.

Chet said...

Penny Arcade raised $310,000 that year. So easily could have been $311,100.

Quick question, anonymous - how much did you donate? To the nearest dollar will be fine.

Anonymous said...

Which anonymous? And donate to whom? PVP or Child's Play?

And why does it mater?

Chet said...

Chet -- Whether you like the product you're reviewing or not, suggestions for improvement are the very definition of constructive criticism.

Only if they're actually improvements. In FSM's case it couldn't be more obvious that these are just excuses for more grousing.

Either FSM is being disingenuous with his "improvements", or he's so genuinely a moron that he actually thinks they are improvements.

Take your pick, I guess. I do him the credit, at least, of not assuming he's an idiot.

Chet said...

Which anonymous?

You're all FSM's peanut gallery, why does it matter?

And donate to whom? PVP or Child's Play?

Child's Play, obviously.

And why does it mater?

Seriously? You can't see how it matters?

Am I speaking to a moron? How much did you donate? If it was "zero", and you don't think it matters, you should have no trouble stating that.

Anonymous said...

You're not speaking to a moron, and if you can't keep a civil tongue I'll stop responding. There's no need to be a jerk.

But I still don't see the relevancy. If you tell me why it's relevant, I'll give you my answer.

Anonymous said...

"FSM is incapable of honest praise. Even his compliments are just backhanded excuses to criticize Kurtz."

So not only are you not allowed to think some strips are occasionally sub-par - you've either got to love them all or you're a "hater", but not only that you've also got to think they're perfect or you're a "hater". I not sure how you could make yourself sound any more ridiculous, Chet.

R.W.McGee said...

So...now that Sage and I found complimentary posts by FSM, you're changing the argument? They weren't complimentary ENOUGH?

I'm not going to apologize for not being a Kurtz sycophant like you. When he posts good stuff I say so, when he posts bad stuff I say so. Deal with it.

Anonymous said...


Quick question, anonymous - how much did you donate? To the nearest dollar will be fine.


His point.
Your head.

Lets break it down so you can see what he said.
Tycho and Gabe used their popularity to get people to donate to a charity.

Scott used his popularity to get people to donate to himself to get a mac.

Sage said...

Chet Chet Chet

What about the post where i showed he said he had a GREAT WEEK?

Plus he loved LOLbat and said if he ADDED something small it would have been the greatest

Its like saying Scarlet Johansen (or Keira Knightly i mix those two) or Gwen Stefani are beautiful women and if they had bigger breasts theyd be perfect physically (B or C cup btw)

You aren't bashing them if something is a 9.5 and you say if they did something to make it a 10 how is that not positive

Hell even the Dark Knight "only" has a 94% on Rottentomatoes, does that mean the person who gave it a 8-9 are overlly criticizing.

Oh well come up with a new arguement and we'll be there to address it, you aren't going to get us to stop commenting on PVP or talking to you.

The funny thing is you are a bigger poster on the site and bringing more attention to it than normal

Thanks Bud!

Ti Chan said...

"Like yours, it's just about hating everything that Scott Kurtz does. And how pathetic is that? He's just a guy that draws webcomics. I mean for fuck's sake he doesn't even charge you money to read them - they're on a free website!"

I would like to point this out again. Whether or not it's a free comic, Scott makes money off of it. But that's beside the point. If I made a horrible comic full of racial hate and threats to eat children, no one could complain because it's FREE? If I drew a comic and threw was a whiny nazi to every person who was a fan, no complaints cause it's free?

Bullshit.

Second, if he's just a webcomic artist, why does he make himself out to be better than others? Not to mention, he represents the comic he draws. He should act better to his fans.

Sage said...

Well television shows don't "charge" you to watch them in addtion to cable prices (similar to having to pay for internet) If someone gave me a free movie ticket or I went to a free day for an art gallery (like Phildelphia museum of art btw) I can't criticize it. Wow

Also, does FSM charge a fee for this site, you can't then say anything about it. Geeze its FREE calm down!

CAn you come up with something different ( you being Scott lovers) its like the 4th-5th time ive answered the same stupid way and no one has rebutted me.

Anonymous said...

The funny thing about PVP fanboys is that they like to say we can't complain because it's free, yet every thread about Ctrl Alt Del always gets 50+ pages.

Ti Chan said...

7:35 Anon:

I thought about the same thing. Sheesh, Scott himself complains about CAD, but it's FREE. Why should he complain. And why should he complain about Tim Buckley. After all, he's ONLY a webcomic artist. It's not like what he does matters to his comic.

And Scott can't say anything about Tim OR CAD, after all, he only says negative things, and is therefore a hater. that makes all thoughts and crit about CAD and Tim as a person null and void.

Sage said...

webcomicscommunitymakesmesad

(ok CAD and PVP, buts its catchy)

Anonymous said...

As I read Ti Chan and Sage's comments, I realized that they had finally acknowledged me. I was in.

Anonymous said...

If you people are so good why don't you make your own damn comic instead of trying to pretend Scott Kurtz isn't a borderline genius?

Anonymous said...

Damn straight. I'll do my own webcomic... with hookers, and blackjack!

Seriously, why do people even bother trotting out that moronic line about how you're not allowed to hold an opinion unless you're creating similar content yourself.

Anonymous said...

Because only cowards dish out criticism while keeping themselves beyond the touch of retaliation in kind.

Anonymous said...

But there you go... 'retaliating'. So do you feel better now? Are you 'winning'? If so, tootle along and let us get back to discussing the webcomic, ta.

Speaking of which, the last time Robbie and his ex-colleagues met, didn't they have a big bust up?

Anonymous said...

Ironically fanboi's have no opinion either. They are conditioned to spew out the standard stock rebuttals (It's Free! You do better!) at anyone who dare criticizes their idol or his work.

Sage said...

to 11:19pm and 5:27am
Then you do not criticize: 1)TV show because you can't act?
2)paintings because you are not an artist?
3) books because you are not a writter?
4) Sports teams because you are not an athlete?
5) Politics because you are not a politician or poly sci major?

If you have not then your argument may be valid, but im sure you have on 1 if not all of these subjects, so hold your rediculous (and redundand from other fanboys) arguments until you find something good.

Sage said...

Also, how am I hiding from criticism? YOu can refute my opinion here on this forum and I will talk to you about it. My anonymity is as prevalent as yours

But why use the word "retaliation"? Sounds a little disconcerting, like having people try to hack your account to see where you live.

The funny thing is 95% of the regular posters DISAGREED with FSM about Thursdays post about "the straight line" does anyone GET that?

R.W.McGee said...

It's because we disagreed that all the Kurtz fanbois hopped in, Sage. They saw blood in the water, and mistakenly thinking that we were like them, they went for the kill.

Now they look like idiots and we have a 173 comment thread.

Chet said...

If I made a horrible comic full of racial hate and threats to eat children, no one could complain because it's FREE?

These sorts of histronics just prove my point, honestly. There's no point in debating with any of you.

If Kurtz makes the comics he wants, instead of reading your mind for the comics you want to see, you're going to think he's an asshole with a big ego. It's really just that simple.

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