Wednesday, December 3, 2008

Good Night (and good luck)

With this storyline appearing to have wrapped up today, I figured I'd jump in with some commentary.

The whole point of this arc seems to have been Cole coming to terms with the fact that he doesn't have a good reason to hate Max. Which is all well and good, except we already knew that. It's obvious that Max is just one of those lucky bastards who gets through life with luck and charisma. Meanwhile, Cole's life is far from perfect.

Of course it doesn't matter if Max is gay or not. His behavior isn't going to change and of course, the boys will still act the same around him. Oh, wait.

I'm just sort of disappointed. I think there was some really good potential here, but instead we got a so-so plot, terrible character development and ultimately, nothing is resolved.

See you tomorrow, folks.

23 comments:

Horsemen said...

I'm always one for shaking the status quo around a little bit, and it looks like this storyarc was one such venture. Clearly the sexuality of Max was just a red herring (like Communism) for the real purpose of this story: fleshing out Cole. I think that's a more valuable and integral part of the overarching story of PvP. And it made a lot of people upset in the process, which is always a fun thing to do if you can get away with it.

mina. said...

As much as I hate long plotlines in comics that should be day-to-day gag strips, I would have preferred a longer opportunity to flesh out Cole's character instead of going from, "I hate him" - "He's gay, I want him" - "No wait, I'm just an asshole." without any development in between.

R.W.McGee said...

Summation:

Kurtz: Hmmm, I know! An arc about how Max is gay, and Brent and Cole totally want to 'do' him! That will be hilarious!

Many Readers: Wow, not funny and vaguely disturbing!


Kurtz: But wait, actually that wasn't it at all! Max being gay? Not the point...this is about advancing Cole's character! Obviously!


To Be Continued...with the next plotline!

Brett Schiller (Sage) said...

I am all for fleshing out a character and Kurtz has done well with some (Marcy and Francis' relationship before the who "teen sex is bad" thing creeped in, Skulls time away from PVP) and bad in others (Panda). However, was this fleshing out of a character.

It more fleshed out the reason for his hate which, IN THE END, was because Cole admitted he's flawed (i say douche, as he was the winner of the DotY before Kurtz pulled down his forums and acted cretfallen when people were mad he did it). Wasn't that the reason we thought all along? Max didn't really do anything except be cheery in the sarcastic world of PVP (not complaining i love them being sarcastic). Its just that we know now that hes self-aware of his flaw.

Its like SKull having a two week arc about doing stupid things around the office and then admitting its becauase hes not too bright. Well duh.

Plus if it is the end of the arc (i dont think it is there will be a "gay" prologue with Brent and Cole about winning Max's affections, or cole admitting he is a jerk to Brent/Jade) then he basically had this great moment of introspection and went "well got to be going" I hope it isn't the end because if it is of this arc, thats just plain stupid.

Brett Schiller (Sage) said...

oh and 15 days til PVPMMS 1 year anniversary.

Chris Dunning said...

Alright, I didn't like the arch much myself, but you guys always seem to forget that part of the charm of the comic format is that we the readers are allowed to fill in the blanks between strips.

The Thelonious Punk said...

I think Horsemen may have been right about the original intention, but somewhere along the way the arc went horribly wrong. In my view, Kurtz (slightly) redeemed himself with the whole 'does it matter' thing, but I'm still glad it's over.

...Hey Kurtz! Great idea for the next arc - Brent finds out that Cole is a catholic, and he and Francis compete to be the most hol...

Wait a minute...

Brett Schiller (Sage) said...

@ Chris Dunning
So you can't talk about what you don;t like in a book or a TV show because in those formats you are supposed to fill in the blanks.

We had an opinion on the matter and shared just fucking deal with it on your own and down complain about our ability to share it.

TheOriginalJes said...

Alternate ending -

Cole (sheepishly): So, uh, are you gay?

Max (politely): Please get out of my house, you fat bastard.

{irony}

Stephen said...

To me, the worst thing is that he forgot the funny.

Jai said...

Ooh, I love how Cole's eye is getting drawn into those "behind-the-character" poses, now. Looks great! Awesome way to start separating his eyes from his glasses.

What a crappy ending (And entire storyline) this was, though.

Max strikes me as the kind of guy who would say, "Would it make any difference if I am?" Because that would be the proper way to say it. And why is Cole assuming that Max knew all about the "Is he gay or isn't he?" drama going on behind his back? The ends neither justify the means nor make them feel more natural, I'm afraid. "So, uh. Are you gay?" Sad.

Unniloct said...

I liked this strip, but not the others.

rdy said...

@Chris Dunning - I don't really buy that 'the reader fills in the blanks' thing as it smacks of fanboys making excuses for lazy writing.

While SK might appreciate his readers creating a false sense of depth to the characters (like with the Scratch retcon), the more fans fill in the blanks, the less incentive there is to tighten the storytelling, watch continuity and generally not screw up.

TheOriginalJes said...

@ Jai

Shouldn't it be, "Would it make any difference if I were?"; for an imperfect tense?

Chris Dunning said...

Sage: Wow, that was really immature for you. I haven't come to expect random swearing from you previous posts. I don't post here often, but I'm not really a huge Kurtz fan myself. I think he's a good cartoonist and an only slightly above average writer. "You Guys", while certainly inclusive isn't trying to lump everyone here together either. I realize that this is not a hive-mind area. Thank God for that. It is directed at those who complain about the transitions between strips.

I didn't intend my comment as an "you're all idiots" statement. I was simply pointing out that, the only thing more strips could have added to this arch is bad pacing. Does anyone here really want to hear the long dialogue that goes between yesterday and today's strips? Guaranteed McCloud or Scribe would have complained about using two or three days for what should have only taken one day. It was bad enough that a bad arch straddled the weekend.

rdy: Except it's not lazy writing if he's leaving out unnecessary details for the sake of progress. Do we really want to see Cole come in the door, take off his jacket and scarf, make small talk, scoot food around his plate with a fork, and sigh heavily and watch Max set out plates, serve up food, move food around his plate, make small talk as well, then come out and ask what the real reason Cole hates hims is? Those are the only things I could see going between Friday and Monday. I don't know what anyone would want between yesterday and today's. Cole and Max finishing dinner? Cole putting his coat on?

Chris Dunning said...

BTW, my first post was mostly intended for mina. Not you Sage.

Brett Schiller (Sage) said...

@ Chris Dunning
Meh whats a little cursing between friends? :)
Ill take the hit for using a curse word as you actually explained your opinion the second time around. We've had a good amount of fanbois swoop in with "you guys are stupid you should just know this/not worry about it is a webcomic/ what do you know you're not a web comice author. So that is a sore annoying point. I am a fan of PVP I just choose to look at it a ittle more than for 30 seconds.

Meh either way if you are a fanboi or not PVPMMS has been a more open area and I liek the discuusion between those who do and don't like the strips. Ater all the only people who were booedwere the anonymus "scott is fat" posters and Scott and Paul for want the create teh drama.

Scyze said...

Maybe you just shouldn't swear at random people, Sage. :/

Brett Schiller (Sage) said...

@ scyze
You know what you're fucking right.

rdy said...

@Chris Dunning - I had hoped my reference to the Scratch retcon (which obviously didn't happen between two concurrent strips) had made it clear that I wasn't just talking about the inclusion of minutiae but as Mina comments, the apparent leapfrogging of concepts.

While fans might go "Well, that's fine, obviously so-and-so happened in the meantime.", it just comes off as clunky and, as I said, lazy writing. Obviously, I don't think anyone was suggesting we see a strip where Cole spends his time pushing food around his plate.

rdy said...

Ack. Consecutive, not concurrent. :(

Brett Schiller (Sage) said...

Best comic in weeks, i like the new Skull The reference back to "I don't like kids" is great and the way to get back at that kid was great. I now have a new tactic when I wait in line. :)

Jai said...

Wuh-oh! Skull is gonna have to requisition his Christmas groove back!

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