Monday, June 2, 2008


My Two Dads is better than the sitcom that inspired the title (the whole run).

I el-oh-el-ed at the third panel, it's a great moment. Offhand I can't recall the last time the text went to the lowercase, and it works. That having been said, I personally would have swapped the second and third panels, giving the "shushies" time to linger while they debate their response.

I'm also not the biggest fan of the text in panel two:

It reads like SK is trying too hard to "write how people talk" here. Cole's "I mean" refers to nothing stated, and I'm all for making the subtext play a role, but here it seems awkward.

Brent's "do you want to do this" is meant to imply to the audience that Brent and Cole are already on the same page in terms of the response required by Francis' outburst -- not only are they on the same page that response is required, but the "do this" implies that they know what specific response is required.

That's all fine, as far as motivation goes, but the subsequent "or should I handle it" makes the line lumpier than it ought to by changing the verb ("do this" vs. "handle it").

A cleaner line would have been "Do you want to handle this or should I?", or, to keep intact the idea that they know exactly what's coming, "Do you want to do this or should I?"

Some writers can get away with the overlapping thoughts and partial statements that make scripts seem "natural" -- having read some of Aaron Sorkin's scripts, I know that just about every word that comes out of the actors' mouths are in his scripts, but it's so freaking hard to get right. Most of the time this work is done by the actor, and it's especially hard in print.


Sage said...

Caren W.

At least from what Ive read on the PVP forum, Scott is not a fan of CAD and Tim for the percieved way he acts. I dont know becuse Ive never met either guy, but he did predict that the pregnancy would end that way. The only saving grace is Tim said he knows from experience and I want to see if Ethan actually changes the slightest bit from experience.

Btw i like CAD too and read it every day but like PVP i can make criticisms, and there has been a good bit to criticize.

The shushies line is my favorite panel in the longest time and the funniest moment of the wedding arc, since the wedding arc is more of a serious turn.

Anonymous said...

Offhand I can't recall the last time the text went to the lowercase, and it works.


Sage said...

this post from Kurtz on his discussion page will help enlighten: The quote are from CAD main page and the rest is PVP opinion

Today's CAD post just illustrates what a fucking animal Tim is:

Some many years ago, long before I started the comic,

So how old was he? 15? 16? The comics been going for five years and he's in his 20's right?

I was in a relationship and we suffered a miscarriage. Now, this relationship was toxic to begin with and doomed to fail regardless, so that the miscarriage was the straw that broke the camel's back came as no surprise.

This relationship was horrible and toxic and doomed, but that did not keep me from fucking her without a condom? What the fuck?

It was a pregnancy neither of us wanted in the first place, so the event didn't effect me nearly as much as it would, say, a couple who was trying for a child.

You see, kids, when UNWANTED babies die, it doesn't hurt. I mean now we're free of that fucking baby, right? Only WANTED babies cause emotional damage when they die.

Still, I saw the emotions it can bring up first hand, and I saw how it could truly hurt someone.

I saw them. SAW. Observed. Luckily I wasn't affected. But I saw how many emotions it can bring up in others.

It's a tough thing to handle because it's nobody's fault. There's nobody you can blame.

I mean, other than it being my fault for not wearing a condom when I fucked that girl with a working womb in that toxic relationship that was doomed to failure in the first place. Other than that, who can you blame? Certainly not me.

Quiznos indeed.

Caren W. said...


Wow, oh so this is all the drama that people kept mentioning. I thought it might be between Scott and User Friendly. Or am I thinking of Penny Arcade and User Friendly?

One more thing sage, I saw someone mention Tim as a pedophile. Is that true or did he just date someone quite younger than him but not a child? Though probably just a nasty comment and nothing more.

Sage said...

Probably just nasty comment, as more than a few people, in what I have seen, don't like him, and we all know how fan boys are :).

From what I've seen PVP, PA, VGcats(at least jokingly), and Zero Punctuation have all come out as not like CAD so he at least rubbed a good bit of people the wrong way.

Kurtz's Unsated Libido said...

I don't really understand Cole and Brent's shared reaction. Marcy and Francis have been dating or interested in each other for what seems like forever. I don't see the problem as long as they used protection. The characters generally don't seem that reserved, and 16 year olds having sex is far from uncommon.

Anonymous said...


"When word got out that he sent a nude picture of himself to an underage girl, he banned most of his user base. Just try asking about it on his forums. You'll be banned in minutes."

An example of his comic genius

Anonymous said...

Wow, Scott is an asshole.

Anonymous said...

Tim Buckley

Kyle said...

So, uh, isn't this a blog about PvP? Why are we talking about CAD?

I normally read this blog via RSS, so I almost never see the comments. So maybe this is an ongoing discussion at this point. But still! Isn't this blog about PvP?

Anyway, the reason I actually clicked from the RSS feed through to the actual post, before I got sidetracked by all these comments about CAD, was to say the following:

I was quite surprised by Brent's reaction. Cole's reaction was basically what I expected, but I thought Brent's reaction would have been more along the lines of, "Way to go man! Good job! *high-five*", etc.

Anonymous said...

I'm really surprised that you didn't mention (and nobody brought up) the line "Yeah. I want." Talk about not sounding natural...

Dan B said...

There are enough nitpicky things one can say about PvP, but I don't think one blog is enough to contain all the reasons CAD makes me sad. Made me sad, I should say. What a travesty.

R.W.McGee said...

CAD is drivel and garbage. When it started, I thought that it was a decent enough beginning for a new web-artist...but it never got any better...he tried to evolve the content of the strips, but his characters are so shallow it never rings true. It's not even worth being sad about.

Sage said...

Hey everyone give me your phone number because I cannot talk about anything other than PVP on these sites. Im sorry I broke some unwritten rule Kyle, but lets examine why I talked about it:

1) Buckley and Kurtz have a longstanding "disagreement" for a while thus its a part of the PVP creators history

2) Kurtz predicted months ago the ending to the CAD pregnancy storyline and wrote about it on his site (ahh something PVP related)

3) Jim Cowling, myself, Caren W. and RW and others have found it a topic of conversation that was worth discussing.

Add it the fact that PVP has been solid and I have discussed the most recent strip. Its not like we are talking about the Lakers-Celtics series.

Kyle said...

All I'm saying is that I never read the comments, and the one time I do actually come to the site to discuss the strip, instead of a discussion of the strip or FSM's post, I find a bunch of people bashing another (mostly) unrelated comic, that happens to me a favorite of mine.

Also, as I just now realized, today's comments are a continuation of a conversation in yesterday's, which is confusing to someone who never reads the comments, except for just this once, on a whim. Yesterday's discussion was sparked by someone calling Tim Buckley a "tool" and saying he is trying to steal some "accolades for an issues-based storyline." I think it was coincidence that this happened in CAD at the same time that things were happening in PvP. I mean, really. Dramatic events happen in comics. They're bound to happen at the same time in different comics sometimes.

Regarding the prediction, there are only so many possible ways for a pregnancy storyline to end. Either she has the baby or she doesn't. Either they keep it or they don't (i.e. adoption). Either they abort it or she miscarries. The way the characters talked about it in the strip pretty much ruled out adoption or abortion. That leaves two choices, she miscarries or they become parents. Scott had a one in two chance of guessing correctly, and he did. No big surprise there.

Also, I think it's very hard to say which comic is better when it comes to comparing any popular webcomic, really. Whether it's PvP, CAD, PA, Achewood, QC, whatever, they're all good in their own ways, yet they all have their own flaws. I find it difficult to really, objectively say which one is better and for what reason. Whenever anyone tries, it just ends up coming out as fanboy drivel.

You do make valid points however. I admit it is PvP-related in that SK mentioned it in his forum, etc., PvP has been solid recently (much better than it was in the less-recent-but-not-too-distant past), and you did mention the recent strip.

That's all I have to say. Although I may continue to read the comments (on this thread at least) don't expect a further response. I feel I have explained myself at greater length than I intended, so I'll leave it at that.

Anonymous said...

That's complete bullshit. Achewood and Penny Arcade are head and shoulders above most other webcomics from a writing standpoint. It's subjective, but just barely.

R.W.McGee said...

Once a certain point of competency is achieved, the enjoyment of any creative endeavor is subjective...however, there are still ways to measure success in (for example) web-comics. Number of readers, happiness of said readers with the product, etc.

Clearly Penny-Arcade is the monster in the field...between PaX, their children's hospital drives, their recently released computer game et. al they are leading the marketplace.

As far as your comments Kyle, most of the people who post here tend to follow the PvP strip and news...and clearly the recent CAD/PvP comments qualify...especially since the PvP strip has been pretty good recently.

I can't say I can understand how you like CAD, but I can say that I don't think you will find it being routinely bashed's just a topic that came up recently.

Seejak said...

FSM said: "That having been said, I personally would have swapped the second and third panels, giving the "shushies" time to linger while they debate their response." I have to agree with you there, I think it would have worked better that way (although I do think you've been a little over critical about panel 2). I've really enjoyed te last couple of pvp weeks, I think it's obvious that SK's been putting a lot of work into the strips.

Anonymous said...

If Francis and Marcie were put into silhouette in the final panel, it would have helped emphasise the overpowering nature of Brent and Cole's shout.

Kyle said...

Okay, one final post from me. ;-) R.W.McGee, you have a point about PA. They are most likely the most famous or popular of the gaming/gamer webcomics. And I also agree with Anonymous that Achewood is head and shoulders above most others from a writing standpoint (most of the time, although it has been a bit hit-and-miss in the past few months). That said, McGee's comment "Once a certain point of competency is achieved, the enjoyment of any creative endeavor is subjective" is exactly what I was trying to say. PA might have a bigger fanbase, and Achewood might have more solid writing, but I still find it hard to say which is truly a better comic, because I like them all, I identify with at least some of the characters in each strip, and they all provide me with relatively similar amounts of enjoyment.

And as a final comment, I'm glad to hear that CAD does not get bashed here regularly, and I just happened to tune into the comments on the wrong day.

Sage said...

I dont even think I was bashing it, I was saying it was a predictable way and thats a shame since its been going on for months especially with the weaker "night before christmas" spoof and "choose your adventure" extending it.

I still read it and want to see where it goes, but in my opinion the writing (and wordiness) and art are generally weaker.

I dont bash Buckley because i dont know the kid, but the amount of people that don't like him in the webcomic community shows there is something that rubbed them the wrong way

Hnm said...

@ 11:43 PM Anon. - GTFO. Srsly. I'm really tired of seeing "lawl silhouette hurrhurr" comments in here.

@ Sage; I think the biggest problem people have with Buckley is his liberal application of the banhammer in his forums to anyone who says anything even remotely negative about him or his comics. He's also gone out of his way to send people foul invectives in response to reasonable, constructive criticism.

Blog Archive