Tuesday, July 15, 2008

FINE

I will explain myself.

My problem with the two punch-out panels is not that they're too similar. It's not that they're too cliche. It's not that they look bad (they both look great as a matter of fact).

My problem is that, visually, IT'S THE SAME JOKE.

I don't care what you do, or who you work for, if you're just re-hashing old ideas, you're failing.

42 comments:

bandana hammock said...

Wrong again, idiot!

While both jokes are slapstick, the most recent one is referencing this particular species' frequent disinterest in mating, while the previous one is clearly making a reference to Street Fighter and video games in general with the "UPPERCUT" lettering out front and anime style of Skull's expression. The context is completely different, and the humor is coming from two totally different places.

So I guess every time Tom tried to hit Jerry with a blunt instrument after the first time, they were just repeating themselves?

INSUFFICIENT EFFORT. PLEASE TRY AGAIN

Katie said...

Uhh...yes, every time Tom tried to hit Jerry with a blunt instrument, they were repeating themselves. That's why Tom & Jerry is a cartoon typically made for...wait for it...children. Who are easily amused by repetitive jokes.

Just sayin'.

davidt.c. said...

way too vehement (or, EFFING CRAZY), hammock d00der. it's soccer, greg; it's soccer.

bandana hammock said...

Just because a show is directed at children doesn't mean it can't be good. You're telling me classic cartoons like Tom & Jerry, The Roadrunner, Bugs Bunny, etc. are worthless, repetitive garbage because they use similar themes along the course of its life? How many times did Daffy Duck get shot with that shotgun? A lot, but it was different and funny every time.

If you think classic animation from the likes of Chuck Jones, Friz Freling, Bob McKimson, etc are only for "children who are easily amused by repetitive jokes", you're not looking hard enough.

Come on, FSM. Kurtz showed two people getting punched in different contexts within what? Four months of each other?

Throw us something with some fucking meat on it for once.

Katie said...

The question isn't whether it's "worthless, repetitive garbage," which no one said it was. The question is whether or not it's a re-hash of old ideas visually. To which the answer is yes, it is a visual re-hash.

Y Knee said...

You're right, it is a rehash of old ideas, in exactly the same way the incessant whining on this blog post is a rehash of every other post. I don't get why people freak out over something that is free. If you all paid for it in some way I could understand...

Sage said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sage said...

y knee
I pay for internet, i can complain about the strip.

I pay for cable I can complain about Tv.

If i walk by a mural on the wall, even though I didn't pay for the wall, I can critique for the art.

I live in Philly and the Art Museum is "pay what you want" on Sundays. If i just go in without a donation, should I not be able to share my likes a dislikes?

what a stupid argument

Ztruk said...

Wow whats up with bandana hammock? You should take a lesson from Paul Southworth on being critical of FSM without looking like a complete moron.

If you must be critical of FSM criticism can you atleast do it respectfully? I don't see FSM calling Scott a "fucking idiot" who should add more "fucking meat" to his "fucking comic"... "fucking idiot fucking". :D

@y knee

Love the name :D like Scott said he loves to pick apart Star Trek episodes because he's a big fan of the show, so do we pick at PvP because we're big fans of the comic.

Anonymous said...

By your logic, FSM is providing his criticism for free. So you lose your right to criticize him.

Jai said...

The Panda Whisperer: The least funny joke so far in the panda story, but SK has heard our cries and fixed up the "behind the head view" drawing of Cole! Nice! I'm afraid the "Panda Whisperer's" hand in that last panel looks pretty bad, but that's the only worthy complaint I've got. The "action lines" and such around said hand (Trying to indicate the proper "close your mouth" hand gesture) are a little silly - maybe the "starburst" should be centered on where the fingers meet the thumb. Still, it's pretty obvious that it's a "shut your mouth" gesture, and not some sort of martial arts cobra strike.

Coco said...

Looks like bandana hammock has given up and gone home. It was probably Scott Kurtz under a fake name again.

Sage said...

i thought it was Dr. Evil's move from on of the Austin Power's movied Jai :)

Ben said...

I normally think you're right on target with your commentary, but here you're tilting at windmills. In the earlier strip, the uppercut derived its humor from the gaming reference (note the score bubbles). Here, the humor is that the panda is offhandedly whacking the other panda. It's not the same joke at all. In the earlier strip Jade is clearly concentrating on Skull, and in the later one Ms. Panda is clearly concentrating on her bamboo. The moves aren't even the same: Jade is punching Skull upwards, back, and to the left (back.. and to the left... back.. and to the left...) while Ms. Panda (does she have a name? I forgot) is punching up and to the right. Violent jumping uppercut... "get lost" whack. Note differences.

Zack said...

So can we focus on how bad this current storyline is? Instead of nitpicking the blog. Today's strip was especially weak. I don't understand the need for these story lines. I know people like the panda, even if I don't. I get it OK. But please can we not have a whole weeks worth of strips with a terrible storyline. I'm just rambling, mainly because I'm so sick of these shitty story lines. I'm still interested in what's happening with Skull and Skratch. Whatever. At least Penny Arcade still knows how to do story lines see: Paint The Line

Anonymous said...

Shouldn't we be talking about how the characters are being shoehorned into the panels? Or how the author constantly drags out 80's references? Or how boring and stodgy the storyline is? Or how so many things come down to writer's fiat? Surely there's something more to complain about and criticize, than the uppercut.

Oh, wait. Zack beat me to it. Thanks.

The reason 'Paint The Line' works, like most of their storylines, is because they have a set duration, with a beginning, middle and ending. It also helps that they take place outside of normal 'continuity', so that the author doesn't have to frantically backtrack after doing something dramatic and innovative.

Reis said...

What Ben said. It's not even the same visual joke, no matter how vehemently FSM tries to insist it is. It's a different set of poses, different context, different mood, everything. The only similarity is that they share an uppercut. And not even in the same fashion... One delivered in over-the-top video game style, complete with damage indication, the other delivered offhandedly, the puncher not even bothering to look at the punchee.

By this logic, we may as well say any time a character's hair stands on end, it's the exact same joke... But Calvin finding a slime monster on Mars with Hobbes is hardly the same joke as Dilbert being told he has to go meet with the evil Queen Bee of Marketing.

Reis said...

And as far as the Panda goes... Yeah, I'm sick of this storyline, don't get me wrong. The panda should never have been made into a plot element. It was funnier when it was completely random and supernatural why a panda kept mauling Brent.

LOLbat? He's a frigging genius! said...

Who the hell wants to read about Skull after he got that kid killed or the new college kids, Francis and Marcie or Brent and Jade being a newly married couple?!?! NO ONE!!!

We want more classic Kurtz jokes about that fucking panda. Kurtz Sir, you are a comic genius and I salut you!

Sage said...

Yeah outside of a nicely generated wedding arc, most of the stories told since he has gone more of a storytelling route have been flat, not awful, but not great either.

Sage said...

ha, where was the last "Classic" panda joke? The last one (and very funny) was when ripped punched Maul out.

(btw the female panda is named Pandora

Anonymous said...

who's ripped?

Anonymous said...

"Rip" is the nickname of Brent's father.

Sage said...

ooops Rip i mean
my apologies :)

Anonymous said...

Well, Banana Hammock, the rampant racism and sexism in those "classic" cartoons might make them a little less worthy of the reverence you're currently heaping upon them...

Anonymous said...

Please, do not feed the trolls.

Regarding storylines in general:

This is why I just wish PvP would end, so that Kurtz could move on to new and interesting things.

PvP has always been a character-based sitcom, with long story arcs. Now that the stories have been told, it has nothing else. There's no reason to drag it down the drain. Come up with a creative, appropriate way to end the series, and be done with it.

Sage said...

FSM
We are funny to serve you :)

Sage said...

DJ coffman controversy is heating up again.

Here is the offending strip

http://yirmumah.com/2008/07/08/will-draw-anything-37-red-skull-and-skull/

Ferris Bueller said...

I'm going to request a piece from DJ coffman involving Hastings and Elliott. Something very gay no doubt.

Anonymous said...

"The panda should never have been made into a plot element. It was funnier when it was completely random and supernatural why a panda kept mauling Brent."

Now there's the perfect example of a tired and repetitive joke. The 'traditional' Panda strips. Dull, dull, dull.

Anonymous said...

@ Sage:

Yeah, I can see how that would offend people. Although to be honest, it's not as bad as I thought.

I still would have never heard about it if it weren't for Kurtz, which I read about on this blog, which he linked to himself.

Incidentally, my favorite kind of humor is irony.

Anonymous said...

@sage - You have to wonder where SK finds the time to draw PvP when he spends so much of it trying to discover new and interesting ways to put his foot in his mouth.

Sage said...

Dj is the one to spark the fire and Scott (the bigger name) threw a can of gasoline on it, some bullets, a small cat, and poop causing this whole controversy to come to a full fruition.

He argues that even if he did it privately DJ would have still leaked it. Well if he didn't mention DJ i would have no idea who the hell he was. The funny thing now is that he's getting MORE requests to do dirty PVP strips :). At least he says he wont evenm though he did draw Ryu cutting his head off and the McKurtz with a dick burger.

Do anyone else wish they could be that immature in there job. Sheesh between Kurtz, Buckley and DJ im surprised a slap fight doesnt happen at the comic cons

Jai said...

The Spirit Within: Take those mittens off, Brent. They're just making you look silly next to everyone else's beautiful fingers (Even if the style of Cole's doesn't match that of TPW's). As an aside, I've decided that I quite like the new tip on his ponytail. It's been around for a little while, now, but I wasn't sure that it was a good change or even a worthwhile change. But I like it.

There are a couple of choices that seem out of character in today's strip. The Panda Whisperer doesn't like Cole's "Panda Feng Shui" joke, but makes a "Panda crack" joke himself? Brent completely and instantly buys into the "You have a panda aura" line? Neither of those feel quite right, given where the Panda Whisperer was at yesterday and how Brent is generally a skeptical cynic (Although I guess that role changed abruptly during the paintball arc, when he suddenly became worried about Skull).

The "Panda lightning rod" joke is good. The "Panda crack" joke is a terrible follow-up. The "You dress like a panda" humor falls a little flat, considering a few different factors. For instance, I've heard way too many "What's black and white..." jokes. Also, Cole and Francis also wear black and white clothes (And if you count their pants as being a different color, then Brent doesn't qualify either). Finally and most importantly, the entire strip is in black and white so EVERYONE qualifies for the "panda" black-and-white look.

Reis said...

To the anonymous who responded to me:

A lot of very good cartoonists have running gags. This can go from the blatantly overused (Such as modern-day Garfield, which unlike vintage Garfield, consists of nothing BUT these running gags, strung together in varying order), to the used just right, such as some of the running jokes in Calvin and Hobbes.

Take the Noodle Incident joke in Calvin and Hobbes. It's always there, Watterson broke it out at some of the strangest times, but he managed to keep it new and funny. If he had ever actually drawn a strip that *explained* the noodle incident, it wouldn't be funny. Now to link this back to PvP, I have no problem with how SK used to use the panda. It happened sometimes, sometimes at surreal moments, other times in very appropriate incidents, but it wasn't used so much that it ever became boring. I always chuckled at panda strips. But now the panda is a cast member. It has a story and a back story and a storyline that has somewhere to go in the future, and it's completely uninteresting.

Anonymous said...

If you want a good example of a stale, repetitive joke then look no further then Wednesday's comic.

In 3 of the past 4 strips the joke has been "panda something":

Panda Porn
Panda Feng Shui
Panda Lighning Rod and Panda Crack (double shot!)

Anonymous said...

@Sage. Like many times before Scott likes to air dirty laundry before an 'audience' (of his fans) to drum up support. It's pitiful and you're right that if he didn't have this desperate need for drama, on the one hand people wouldn't even be unaware of these situations and on the other, people wouldn't particularly care.

With the DJ incident, you can see it in that forum thread - Scott takes every opportunity to fill his fans in on what had happened in the past. Even to the point where pretty much each reply, he dredges up the same issue even when it had nothing to do with the poster's comments. Desperate to play the sympathy card, to rally the troops, he just comes off looking like as much (or if not more so) of an idiot as the person he's trying to target.

Sage said...

@4:44am anony
Yes and the funny thing is now hes getting angry that he's not getting the support he though he was going to get on twitter or his own forums.

The drama comment you made lead me to think of Yahtzee's Zero Punctuation video of "How to Webcomics" which pretty much addresses this situation

Fellow Webcomic Artist said...

Scott needs to take a lesson from Dave Kellett on professionalism.

Dave doesn't insult his fans.

Dave doesn't publicly bash and insult others in the comic industry and community.

Dave doesn't take 3 months to send book pre-orders leaving his wife and sister in-law to handle hundreds of complaints.

Dave maintains a comic buffer and never goes a day without posting a new strip.

Dave doesn't abuse his popularity and keep bugging companies to give him free stuff.

And finally... DAVE DOES NOT GIVE OTHER WEBCOMIC ARTISTS A BAD NAME!

I would much rather have Dave Kellett or Brad Guigar represent the webcomic artist community than Scott Kurtz.

ds1 said...

I don't like the lack of dynamism of the punch. It's like the fist just materialized under his chin.

I know it's lame, but if there were some "speed lines" attached to her fist I think it would convey how quickly she moved. Otherwise, it would have been better as one of those surprise back hand punches.

aaaantoine said...

I would like to point out that the panda whisperer is a clear homage to Mr. Miyagi.

That is all.

Anonymous said...

@fakescott This just in, FSM is removing PvP from his bookmarks and deleting his blog.

what you talkin about Southworth?

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