Thursday, January 8, 2009

WOW stories

I saw Scott's update and chuckled to that and at my friend RW's response to his solicitation of World of Warcraft stories for Ding!

At first I laughed because Scott said he was taking over the creative reigns of the strip both writing and drawing the strip. While I do enjoy his art more than Paul, preference over actual skill, he isn't technically writing the strip. His readers will be writing the stories that become the strips while he will edit the stories into whatever format he wants to put the strip into. It’s like “writing” Humor in Uniform from Readers Digest, while having to do the bigger job of illustration.

While, I do agree that it is funny but I disagree that the people aren't being paid. Scott did promise to send them a 11 x 17 hard copy of the strip which is $9.95 in his store and it’s a personalized strip to their story. Remember these are the people that would have hunted down FSM for original artwork being sent to them.

PS - If you want to see something funny Ding! actually has a comments page right below the strip (much to the horror of Scott I'm sure) and there is a pretty good argument going on since it has been about a month (12/10/08) since the strip last updated. However, I'll with a poster Marler that Scott seems to have lost "it" with that strip and all the traction is gone. Hopefully this solicitation works as Ding was a good strip when it first started.


TheOriginalJes said...

The comments at Ding! make me feel at home.

kurtz said...

First of all, it's wonderful to see this site dying a slow, inevitable death. Kick ass.

2nd. About Ding.

I've gotten some amazing and hilarious stories from people in the WoW community and I'm really excited about turning Ding into something I can be excited about again.

There are only so many ideas you can mine from your own gaming experience, then the idea goes dull. Which is why PvP was never just about one game. Or just games in general.

WoW is a community game. It's about interacting with other people and their experiences. Turning Ding into a strip about "real stories from a virtual world" is a great idea (I think).

If you guys want to get all high-and-mighty about these people being compensated for their ideas...whatever. If the person giving me their story idea has no problem with it, then it's none of your FUCKING BUSINESS is it? I'm not holding a gun to anyone's head.

And despite them giving me their stories in their own words, I am going edit and add to spice things up and make them nice and tight and enjoyable to read.

God I can't wait for this site to belch it's last bubble of bile and then die off.

Fake Scott McCloud said...


You know what? I *was* about to compose a post all about how much I'm over PVP and how it's obvious this blog has lost steam, and how that's ok 'cause, you know, you can only bitch about something for so long, especially something as mediocre as PVP.

But now I have a better idea. It may be worthwhile, it may not.

We'll see.

Brett Schiller (Sage) said...

I just laughed that you were "writing" the pieces my angry big friend. Readers digest does the same exact thing: they solicit for stories, they take them and edit them into something readable, and they pay people a few hundred dollars for their work. Yet no where in those sections do the publishers say they "write" those stories.

Im glad your excited about Ding! its good, but you urself just admitted you ran out of steam "there are only so ideas you can mine".

Also, the best way to let a site die is to bring attention to it with another of your rants, thanks for the attention

Rdy said...

"First of all, it's wonderful to see this site dying a slow, inevitable death. Kick ass."

Yeah, it's almost as if there was a major holiday and everybody had better things to do with their time than waffle on about PvP. Go figure.

Brett Schiller (Sage) said...

Hey kurtz's post was copied and pasted with a link to this update on the Ding! comments

That was a quick full circle

Orchid64 said...

I disagree that Ding was "good when it first started" and isn't now. The latest strip rang incredibly true to me as a gamer, even though I don't play WoW. I thought it had a lot of verisimilitude for all gamers who play RPGs and a very good strip.

That being said, I'm saddened by the comment here which is attributed to "Kurtz". I wish he'd ignore this site rather than offer up so much bile. He shut down his own forums so he wouldn't have to hear his readers' opinions, but now seems to be going out of his way to find feedback regardless. It's like he can't help himself if he knows there are negative voices out there.

Jim Thorpe said...

S. Kurtz is like most creative people, looking to see what his audience is saying about the work. His personality comes out in his comments, and probably the humor of some of it is lost since it is in written form - just listen to the podcast. And be honest, some fans love getting him riled up, and look for him to write comments like the one above. Maybe it's part of the PVP experience (I don't know).

The Trouble said...

Haha, yeah... nothing jump starts this place like an angry kurtz rant.

Perhaps the first paragraph of the Ding! post wasn't exactly accurate, but it's not like he's withheld the true source of the stories for months on end (or until he got caught). It's all pretty much right there up front.

It's an interesting move though, so many creators avoid these kinds of things as it clouds the issue of authorship to some degree. Hell most people in high level creative positions aren't even willing to sight inspirations they are so worried about accusations of idea theft, for lack of a better term.

R.W.McGee said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
R.W.McGee said...

If PvP Makes Me Sad ever did actually die, (instead of experiencing an entirely normal slowdown over the holidays) it would be because either

A) Your comic was so terrible that only retarded fanbois could stand to read it...or

B) Your comic became so good, there was no longer any point in critiquing it.

Which do you think is more likely Kurtz?

D said...

The art upgrades in PVP are starting to really pick-up. I'm really liking some of the new stuff SK does with profiles and smaller details.

I hope this doesn't start some kind of flame war, but I'm feeling a hint of Frank Cho's "Liberty Meadows", of course a rated G "Liberty Meadows", in the new PVP.

Though I wish there was a little better editing on the dialog and more of a cohorent story-arc.

David said...

Page views for PvPOnline are down 13% in the last three months.

Page views for pvpmakesmesad is down 10% in the last three months.

Based on the amounts of people who visit each site I would say that PvPOnline is losing people faster.

And THAT makes me sad.

Rdy said...

There are times when I don't really have anything to comment about in the strip du jour. It's usually when it's as its most bland that it barely merits the effort and that has been happening a lot recently.

Apart from the decidedly weak soap opera plotting we've been getting, I've noticed Kurtz has spates of styles he tries on for a while. There were the silhouettes, then the backs-of-heads. Now we've got characters in profile popping up every other strip or so. I'll be glad when he tires of this one as it looks particularly naff.

Hourglass Keeper said...

If Kurtz spent as much time on his comics as he does pondering the comics world in general and posting about other people's comics, he might not be in the situation he is in now.

Brett Schiller (Sage) said...

I've been looking for information on page views, what site or place did you find that information?

The stats you quoted are very good and probably the best argument for this sites slow down (also because Im average at this at best:)

David said...

It's base statistics, but the sheer difference in numbers makes it so that PvPOnline is hemorrhaging viewers.

Brett Schiller (Sage) said...

@ David
Thanks I will now commence playing with that site for a few days.

Scott said...

R.W. I thought you went away forever. Remember that?

How did I bring any attention to this site? Who saw my post? You guys? How did that help? Whatever. Keep going who gives a fuck? If it makes you feel better about your anonymous horseshit go for it.

Ding is what it is: a paid gig. It's not my baby. It's not anything I'm even really invested in fully beyond a it being a professional gig.

In this economy, to be offered a paid cartooning don't turn that down. To turn that down would be a slap in the face to everyone trying to make it as a cartoonist. I never want to take those opportunities for granted.

Ding is an assignment and I'm trying to make it as good as it can be given that there is only so much I can do with jokes about ONE fucking video game. Even if it's my favorite video game.

Yeah, I admit I ran out of steam with Ding. It's not something I didn't mean to admit. It's not like you just caught me in a gotcha moment. I already have a strip that I put my entire heart into. I think it's obvious and I'm quite open that Ding is what it is.

Scott said...

P.S. despite what alexa says, I'm very happy with PvP's pageviews and the amount of money it's bringing in to provide for me and my family.

Honestly, this is from my heart. I have never been happier with my work or how my business is doing.

It's a good life, and I appreciate everyone who helps make it possible for me.

Hourglass Keeper said...

"It's not anything I'm even really invested in fully..."

You certainly have proven that.

Also, I disagree with you in regard to "there are only so many jokes about one video game". If you play with interesting people and you are dedicated to the game, the possibilities are endless.

Sean said...

Is it just me or is Kurtz incredibly rude??

I´ve always enjoyed PVP but after these couple of very eye opening outbursts I really don´t feel like visiting his comic´s again.

Sad, Kurtz, very sad!

Setitie said...

Personally all he had to do was say something like I should have never posted on my own website that DING will be posted twice a week and I'm sorry to have disappointed my DING fans, instead he comes across as if he never made those comments, he did, and that to bad if you don't like it. I agree, really sad!

Hourglass Keeper said...

I don't think Kurtz was prepared for doing Ding! in the first place. He ran out of ideas so quickly. The fact that he's closed his forums and doesn't really respond to readers is also a bad sign.

Here's an example of a comic strip done solely about one video game:

It's done consistently and the author regularly comments/interacts with the readers of his comic. He's done two long storylines for his WoW comic, this one and a previous one, so it's not like the concept can't be executed successfully.

Scott said...

well, you guys got me. I suck.

I guess I'll just quit. Cause you guys showed me the light.

I'll go make a post right now. Thanks guys.

Jim Thorpe said...

Miranda's expression in that last panel is great.

jsiebels said...

Over the past year it seems like Scott has grown tired of PVP or has just run out of steam. After 10 years most creative endevours become mere shells of their former greatness and PVP is no exception. How many TV shows are still solid after 10 years? How many syndicated strips? Watterson, Larson and Breathed knew this. Scott's problem is he has no "Plan B." He is middle aged (in his 30's) with no job skill (other than drawing), no college degree and no options. That has to be scary. He makes most of his money off sales but with the slumping economy (along with the slumping quality of his strip) he'd better come up with a new game plan or get his muse back because the outlook is not bright. And he should learn to respect his fan base a little more. Dude draws a comic strip. His fans enjoy that for 30 seconds a day and then move on. No reason to have an ego about that. His fans could live without his strip and not blink an eye. We survived the retirement of Calvin and Hobbes. Scott keeps this pace up and he'll be like Randy the Ram sitting in a half filled gym at the age of 50 trying to sell autographed pictures to a few devoted fans wondering if his life would have been better had he made different choices.

R.W.McGee said...

I didn't 'go away forever' I'm just not wasting anymore time critiquing your strip. I'm part of that 13% drop in page views that you are experiencing.

Also, way to toss Ding under the bus dude. Ouch. You really make it tough on the fans you do have.

Scott said...

Jesus. I think it's hilarious how balls-out you guys are trying to get under my skin now.

It's like you're pulled all the stops and pretense about this site being about critique and not hate.

I think it's good. You guys should just own your true colors and go 100% balls out on me.

Let your hate shine.

Brett Schiller (Sage) said...

I think we should let the sun shine it, actually

Sean said...

What hate??

People are disappointed in your lack of updates and you answer their concerns with a language that only belongs in a republican election room. I´ve always thought you were a well educated man with a civilised language. I´ve been an avid reader of pvponline because your artwork and punhclines have been fantastic.

Sadly you´ve ruined everything with the posts you´ve made here!
Instead of putting on a few explaining lines you´ve come across as paranoid and vindictive, going for the throat instead of the ball.

I´ll hereby join the 13%
Goodbye Kurtz, you were good.

Reader said...

Scott said: I appreciate everyone who helps make it possible for me.

It's quite clear that you don't.

And I'm not only talking about your rude and hateful remarks here*, I'm talking the overall negativity and disrespect towards your fans that you've shown in some Halfpixel forum posts, by your actions and even in some of your blog posts.

* Cause whatever you may think of this site and the commenters here, we are part of those who "make it possible" either by adding to your pagecount, by subscribing to the web series, or by purchasing things from your store. I know I can't be alone here in having done that - yet you've made it quite clear time and again you certainly do not appreciate me or anyone else who frequents this site.

Scott said...

If someone comes up and kicks me in the nuts, and then holds up a book to prove he contributed to my success...that doesn't make the nut-kicking any less offensive.

Just because you bought a book, or read my strip doesn't mean that you now have purchased the right to shit all over me here or anywhere else.

Every time you make reference to some instance where I was shitty to a fan, you always make that reference out of context of the situation.

I had issue and was verbally abusive to people on THIS site and in the old halfpixel forum? Why is that shocking? Both of those places are not very friendly for people named Scott Kurtz who make comics called PvP at times.

You seem to keep forgetting that I'm not running for office or anything. I'm an artist/entertainer. Either you read the strip for free or you don't. Take it as it is or leave it.

If you want a book or a tee shirt or a toy, then buy it. If you don't then don't. There is nothing more to the transaction than that.

I think I've finally learned what this site is really about and why I keep finding myself at loggerheads with it. And I think I'm finally over it.

I get what you guys are after and that's fine. Once I wrapped my head about the true context of THIS site, I kind of lost my anger about it.

Brett Schiller (Sage) said...

But I won't buy anything because it will benefit you. Plus do you know how fun it is to hide issues of pvp in comic stores? It's a fun little game :)

Brett Schiller (Sage) said...

I do have to commend Scott for bring more comments to this thread though, thanks buddy.

Brett Schiller (Sage) said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
John said...

Kurtz's PvP comic for me even after 8 years of reading it is still funny and enjoyable, I find ding funny as well and yeah it doesn't get updated allot but oh well it's not like the newspaper I pay for.

Based on my experiences with Kurtz as a person he's always come across as one of those I'm to busy for my fans type. Met him at comic con's a couple times barely got the "the nod" sent a few emails here and there never got so much as a form response back. It's not going to stop me from reading or buying what I want to buy because I do it for my own enjoyment. And not everybody is going to be the nicest guy in the world, I think allot of the people here need to grow up so he can be jerky big deal not everybody is sunshine and roses.

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